76. Sacred Soul Journey: Interview with Tatz Holmes

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Do you sometimes wonder why you have a repetitive pattern in your relationships or life choices? Have you ever considered what is going on in your subconscious mind? Or how does intuition work?

You may be intrigued by these topics but don’t want to get into a “witchy-woo” type of conversation or simply find that too confusing to follow. I always like to put both science and spirituality together when it comes to learning and exploring these topics. It gives us a more holistic perspective.

That’s why I am so delighted to share my interview with Tatz Holmes for this week’s podcast. Tatz is a qualified counsellor, a student intern psychotherapist, mentor, triple P positive parenting practitioner, public speaker, and spiritual teacher

I met Tatz at the Mind Body Spirit Festival in Brisbane earlier this year. After my speaking gig, I walked passed her stall at the exhibition hall while she was playing her steel drum. I was instantly intrigued by the instrument and how captivating the music was. I cannot help myself but ask her about it. Within minutes I was blown away by her ability to engage in a highly intellectual conversation about meditation, intuition and our subconscious mind. All with both science & psychological explanations and spiritual connections.

She is clearly “fluent” in both “languages” and not only it makes the conversation so much more interesting and intriguing, I felt I’ve found someone who really understands the importance to integrate both backgrounds and the ability to communicate that to the world.

Tatz was just about to release her book “The Inner Art of You and I” and so I jumped on the opportunity to invite her to be my guest for my podcast.

Highlights

• Integrating spiritual principles and knowledge with counselling and psychotherapy. Working with both mind and heart to help clients to heal and dive deep into their subconscious.  

• Process-orientated psychology – learn how to dream again. We start listening to the universe and to the world around us from a whole different perspective.

• Using intuition to read Tarot cards  – we use our inner psychic ability to see and hear and feel from the deepest inner core of ourselves and connect into everything that’s around us 

• We may be isolating or social distancing but more than ever we need to connect to one another because this is a time to make the right decisions and do the right actions to support each other during the pandemic time.

• Sacred Soul Journey – to discover our scared wounds ( in spiritual language)/core wound (psychology term) and the core belief that is the issue and symptoms of this singular cause. 

• Our problems and our lives revolve around this core issue. When we know what that is, we then know what we’re working with.

• Our core wound is not constantly in our awareness but it operates in the background and there is a whole belief system that comes with it, or holding us back without us knowing it consciously. 

• When we become more aware of our core wound, we can use different tools or strategies that suit us. For example, journaling can help some. When we catch our thought, we can make a decision to try to shift that. And that’s where the science and the physiology explanations come in.

• Her book “The Inner Art of You and I” – is an inspirational empowerment book to help people to recognise that they’re not alone in their suffering and that there is light at the end of the tunnel. It’s also written to guide people through some of the processes and to grow in their own selves

If you would like to connect with Tatz, please visit her Facebook page

Video

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Transcript

Sze Wing:	Hi everyone. I’m so happy to introduce you to Tatz Holmes today. She’s my guest for today’s podcast. And a little introduction, I actually just met Tatz not long ago at a Mind Body Spirit Festival in Brisbane when I was doing a workshop. And I just walked past her stall and I got intrigued. I’ll tell you the story in a little bit. And so we started talking. We were really kind of hit it off. And I realised she is a qualified counsellor, a student intern psychotherapist, mentor, triple P positive parenting practitioner, public speaker, and spiritual teacher. So I thought that was really awesome so I really want to get her to be in my podcast. So I invited her to come. And the funny thing is that when I first met her, she was playing an instrument and I had no idea what that was. We just started talking. So anyway, that’s a little introduction. So welcome to my show, Tatz.
Tatz:	Thank you. It’s great to be here.
Sze Wing:	So first of all, before I dive into other questions. So the story goes, I walked past your stall. You were probably taking a break [laughter]. And then I was so nosey because you were playing a beautiful instrument that had beautiful sounds. It kind of put me into a meditative state. So actually what were you doing? You can tell our audience [laughter].
Tatz:	So I was playing a version of a steel drum, called a guda drum, which was created by a guy called Dmitrii Gubarev in Austria– not Austria, what am I talking about? In Ukraine. And I’ve wanted a steel drum for a very long time. And I did a lot of searching online and I found these amazing instruments that he makes. And ordered myself one as a gift. And it’s just really beautiful and all handcrafted and hand-engraved. And, yeah, it’s just an absolutely amazing instrument. And I use it a lot for when I’m taking people into journey spaces and that sort of stuff if we’re doing ceremony or guided meditation and that sort of thing too. So it just takes them into that floaty, nice, calm, peaceful space as well. So no wonder you felt a bit meditative when you walked by [laughter]. Yeah.
Sze Wing:	Yes, so I think I’ve heard about it. I even have heard that sound before at some events. But I’ve never seen anyone using it or doing it. And when I walked past, I heard that sound. It was really peaceful. And so I struck up a conversation. But why I found it interesting is that sometimes in festivals or in shows, you meet a lot of people, they could be musicians, could be meditation teachers, very shamanic-orientated practitioners. And that’s fantastic. They offer different varieties. But when I started to talk to you, I realised that, oh, hold on a minute, you don’t talk like them[laughter]– you sound like a counsellor, psychotherapist. And then I was like, “So what do you do and are you combining what you do?” Because it seems really awesome that obviously you have the intellectual piece where you come from a counselling background and often are academically or intellectually based. But then when you were doing the drums, I felt you also offer something else. And I was always interested in people who are diving to the shamanic journey and that’s a conscious and conscious piece. But not everybody has sort of both elements integrated. So tell me a little bit about your background. How did it all come together, and is it your intention to put them together in a text where it’s more holistic or integrated?
Tatz:	Yeah, and I can easily answer that. Absolutely, so my background, I think is more– it was initially a spiritually based background and I did a lot of spiritual work along the way. I’ve been reading Tarot cards and things like that for over 20 years and all that sort of stuff. And then a few years’ ago my ex-partner asked me was there something that I ever wanted to study. And we had this conversation and I said, “Oh, well, yes, psychology was always fascinating to me.” And so it didn’t take long, I went and explored a few courses, and so on. And then I actually got into the academic side after being in this spiritual side. So the spiritual foundation for me is very, very strong. I then went ahead and studied counselling and qualified as a counsellor and did a whole lot of the other training, so the heartmath training, the Triple P stuff and whatever else I could get my hands on. And then last year I started my undergraduate in holistic counselling and psychotherapy, specialising in what’s called process-oriented psychology. And the founder of process-oriented psychology, Arnold Mindell, is a very fascinating man. He and his wife have travelled the world doing all sorts of work. They’ve worked with different shamans, medicine people, healers and Aboriginal culture here in Australia as well. And so his work is– it’s founded on a lot of big names. So he was a Jungian psychologist and before that he was a physicist. So he’s combined physics and the psychology and all of that together and deepened into Jung’s idea of dreams and dreamwork and that sort of stuff. And so he works with the dreaming that’s in the body and around us all the time. And so we’re able to access that dreaming space. And so what I really love about process work in combination with the other work that I do, so I’ve got my connection to spirit and the energy work. I’ve got Reiki and that too, and so with all that sort of work and the messaging that I do get through as well, combining that with process work is really an incredible way to work with people because you also allowing them the space to open up their innate wisdom and to access what’s happening inside of them, that’s trying to come forward. And so when I worked with people over the weekend at the Mind, Body, Spirit Festival, I didn’t have Tarot cards with me, but I was doing readings and it was partly me getting the messages in and messages coming through, and it was also the other part was the information that existed in those people. And so the readings that I did for people were quite fascinating, and very, very powerful because there’s something about– you can go for a reading with Tarot and have this conversation and I can tell you what the cards are saying and then we can do a reading where we’re both co-creating and working together and bringing through the information that’s trying to come through. So there’s a bit of an element of empowerment for the individual in that.
Sze Wing:	Wow, okay. So I don’t even know how to start, but there are so many things I would love to ask, dissect it in a little bit. So okay, first of all, sometimes when I work with people who are very rooted in the spiritual realm when they talk about intuition say tarots, it’s so much– it’s about the language, it’s about connecting to the spirit and sometimes they don’t try to explain it with science or anything like that but it’s more like inner knowing, and sometimes it works really well with people because they felt that inner truth and they align and resonate with that. Some people will find it very witchy-woo-ey, what’re they talking about, this is just crazy stuff, whatever. People have their opinion. And then you will have people come from psychology, counselling or science background where they will use a different set of vocabulary to explain certain things that are going on in our lives or our subconscious, unconscious. And it works with some people because they understand the language and it’s explained well and helps them to bring out whatever they need to find or wanted to know within themselves. But I find it very rare that we can put it together in a context, in a way, because I think that merits in bold, I think sometimes– I personally love when you talk about reading tarot, it can be quite a co-creating process where I tap into my inner intuition or the spiritual side of things. But sometimes I need language from the other and to explain what may be going on in my behaviour, in my environment and so forth, to explain how certain things relate together. So some people say when you read tarot cards it’s bringing out what you have in your unconscious. So that’s why some people say it’s the spirit talking to you, whatever. So how do you explain to people when you are able to, because you learned from both, let’s say, schools of thought, and you work together, how do you explain to people what psychic reading or tarot reading is really about? What is your language, and how do you define using both languages to explain these quite complex concepts to help someone?
Tatz:	Absolutely, and I think its really important for us to be able to embrace this type of work from a holistic approach. Where we’re taking the merits and the values from psychology, from physics, from science, from the physiological information that is out there now that explains what’s happening in our bodies and our brains and our hearts and how we use that together and then also bringing the spiritual side into it. And I feel like having that broad scope vocabulary really does help people to understand a little bit more. Especially the spiritual side, if they’re looking at it and going, “Oh, that’s a bit witchy-woo” and you can explain from a scientific point of view or from a physiological point of view what we’re actually talking about. So the psychic abilities and all that sort of stuff, for me, the way I would describe that is using the aboriginal term of dreaming. And how we are all dreaming this reality and how there’s dreaming of the land and of the animals and of people and the dreaming of spirits in general. And process-work also works with that dreaming realm. And so, when we can learn how to dream again– which I recently was able to frame my purpose in this world, and that’s to help teach people how to dream again. And when we can learn how to dream again we start listening to the universe and to the world around us from a whole different perspective. That moment where you’re sitting and thinking about something and a butterfly comes and flies past your face and you notice this butterfly and you watch it go by. There’s information at that moment and when you start accessing the dreaming space of ourselves you start noticing, “Ah, that butterfly flew by just at the moment that I was thinking about this thing and what does butterfly represent for me? When I look at a butterfly, how do I feel? What comes up? What words, descriptive words, come up for me? And then how can I take that information and apply it to whatever it is I’m thinking about right now?” Because there’ll be something in there, there’ll be something of value, a richness, in that little message of a butterfly passing you by just at that specific moment.
Tatz:	And if you can tap into that then you’re receiving those messages from the world around you. We live in a hall of mirrors. There’s information around us all the time, in all things, whether it’s nature, people, experiences. Whatever it is, there’s information in that and that information is guiding us and it’s inviting us to open ourselves up to our abilities to be able to read and to be able to see with different eyes and to hear with different ears so we’re listening from the deepest inner part of ourselves. And that, I think, is what psychic ability really is. It’s that ability to see and hear and feel from the deepest inner core of ourselves and connect into everything that’s around us all the time which is the dreaming space. It’s connecting into the dreaming of ourselves and of life. And if we can all learn to dream together we can be creating massive change in the world. So it’s so important for us to come back to that space, I believe.
Sze Wing:	And when you say dream again, so I’m curious about the word, again. Do you mean that we lost the ability or we used to do this when we were little or– what do you mean by again?
Tatz:	I feel like humanity, as a collective, has lost the dreaming. We’ve been so distracted by all of this illusory world around us, by consumerism and living this apparent dream that is out there where we live this perfect life and it unfolds in a perfect way and we go out and– people going out and they’re buying all the toys and they’re doing all of these things to distract themselves from their inner being. And to come back to the dreaming is to come back to our inner being and to really reconnect with our heart space and lead our lives from a different perspective where we’re able to look at ourselves in the mirror and hold ourselves in the deepest most profound love and only from that space can we truly, truly send our love out into the world. And so to dream again is really to come back into the centre of our being and really come back to love and truth and authenticity and integrity and to find that peace and happiness and joy that we so desperately seeking, to be able to find that within ourselves so that we can walk in the world as shining beacons of light and love and help create change in the world and bring our brothers and sisters home to truth.
Tatz:	And that’s what the dreaming is all about. And so I feel like– and we can see it happening in our world right now with this whole coronavirus thing going on. We need to come back to love. We need to come back to the truth. We need to come back to the earth and we need to nurture the earth. We need to nurture ourselves. We need to nurture each other and from that space, we can start learning to dream together again and to create a world that’s peaceful and harmonious.
Sze Wing:	Yeah. And I often say to people, at a certain age or when certain things happen they come back to that centre that you’re talking about, what matters to our hearts the most. Because at times like this, when there’s a lot of stress and noise and craziness outside and especially when we often have to be socially isolated – distancing they call it – then you’ve got to really come back in and to think what really matters. And I find that often when you read really great books, classic, well, like Joseph Campbell’s work or Jung’s work and different spiritual teachers, psychotherapy, they may use different words but it’s all come back to what you say about that heart space, the centre, which I call it what really matters to us. When something happened like now, you realise how important it is to have the community and how important that– we may be isolating but it’s actually more than ever we need to connect because this is a time to make the right decision, do the right thing, going forward, how to help each other and also support each other during the crazy time.
Tatz:	I think while we are forced to isolate in some instances, we actually encouraged to connect and they are two different things. You can be in the same room but you can still text each other or not connecting from a heart space, only from the head or not at all. So I think it’s an interesting phenomenon; give me time and space to think about this thing and I think we may have different language but I think we’re talking about the same thing. And I see that in many great books, people that love, they actually talk about the same thing but in a different language, in a different context, a perspective. So I think you really reach an important point about coming back to this space.
Sze Wing:	So tell me a little about what you do? And I know that you take people on a sacred soul journey. When you look at the word itself, people will probably think it’s very maybe meditative, shamanic, but, actually, what do you do? You tell us.
Tatz:	So yeah, I do a lot of things in the sacred soul journey, in particular. It’s a really fascinating session and was actually born out of my very third counselling session that I ever had with my first client. And we did the first two sessions all by the book and how I’d learned and all of that. And then on the third day– well, the third session we had, said– and I’d been reading some of Arnold Mindell’s books at this time as well. And I said to her, “I’m going to try some different, okay? I don’t know where we’re going with this. I don’t how it’s going to work out. Are you willing?”, like, “Let’s go in and adventure and find out how to do this together.” And she was absolutely open to it. And so in this session, what was born out of that was an exploration to find what’s termed as our sacred wound.
Tatz:	In psychology terms, they might call it the core wound. In spiritual terms, it might be called the sacred wound. And what I found is that as we unfold this journey, we find what the sacred woundedness is which is they– it basically comes down to an I am statement or a small sentence that starts with the I am. And it’s a belief that we carry about ourselves. And it’s the core belief that is the issue for all of our problems. All of our things in our lives revolve around this core issue. And you can see it when we go through the process. And we can see all these things are symptoms of this singular cause.
Tatz:	And when we know what that is, we then know what we’re working with. So we don’t have to worry about all of the situations and all of the little symptoms. We can go right to the core space, and we can work with that and we can change that. And when we change that, all those other things around it change too. So it’s like having the flu and taking medicine to treat the symptoms but you’re not treating the cause. And I feel like sometimes some forms of counselling are treating the symptoms, but they’re not getting to the root cause.
Tatz:	And this session is– this is the foundational session that I do with anybody I work with. And we go through that. So basically what we do is we’re exploring the masculine and the feminine energies that we all have through our experience of mother and father. And so we go through this mother/father information. We also look at the body and illnesses or accidents or any sorts of things that the body has experienced or manifested. And we can see how that connects into aspects of mother and father and what we’ve learnt from them. So we go through all of that. And then from that space, we dig in as far as we need to go to find that I am statement, that one core belief. And for some people, it’s as simple as, “I’m not good enough” or “I am not worthy” or “I am shameful”. It can be really simple. And we find that.
Tatz:	So that used to be that journey completed. But then it sort of grew. And I’d been following the work of Richard Rudd. He talks about the Gene Keys. And in the Gene Keys, you have the Shadow, the Gift and your Siddhi. And so the shadow would be that core sacred woundedness. And so I’ve expanded this journey to– it sort of reflects the Gene Keys in a way that it’s got the threefold aspects to it. So you’ve got your Shadow space which is your sacred woundedness. Then we’ve got where you’re going to. And so we explore that a little bit. And we find what the I am statement is that’s trying to come through. So if it’s, says “I am not worthy”, maybe the I am statement is, “I am strong” or whatever it is. And then there’s a pathway between the two. And so that pathway between the two is usually what somebody’s really struggling with. So I’ll use mine, for example. So my core woundedness was entrapment. So I am trapped. I am trapped in this life, in these circumstances, in all of these things I am trapped. And with that entrapment comes a whole lot of things.
Tatz:	And my journey is to the journey of purity because within that entrapment, and the circumstances of in my life, there was a lot of guilt, a lot of shame, a lot of negative emotions, a lot of anger and all of that stuff that came with that core woundedness. And, for me, my journey is to get back to that purity and innocence of myself and within that purity, there’s that essence of freedom. And so I’m coming from the entrapment into that free space through purity. And my pathway to that was surrender. So I’ve had to learn, in my lifecycle, how to surrender, how to let go of the control that I’m trying to have, how to be open and be accepting and be allowing and to be patient. Patience’s been a massive learning for me.
Tatz:	And so that’s sort of the outcome of what we get to in that sacred soul journey. So I am trapped and I’m walking the pathway of surrender to freedom to meet the place of, I am pure.
Tatz:	So that’s sort of what the outcome looks like.
Sze Wing:	So is it often like sort of almost kind of the opposite? Your sacred wound, if it is by entrapment, your destination will tend to be about freedom so it’s a bit of resolving that. And so I’m curious about– for example, if I look at myself, there are certain things I’m very conscious about myself that it’s– perhaps it’s my wound or statement or things that have prevented me from becoming the best version– like that self-limiting belief or that sort of stuff. Sometimes I’m very conscious about it. So I think, looking back, in all my life, I think from time to time– the thing is, I haven’t encountered a lot of major issues in that sense to really throw me back but I’m aware that sometimes it comes out a little bit and then I catch myself, or from the things I do I realise, “Ah, that’s holding me back.” So it’s not constant, in the background, but from time to time it affects me or I can see, it’s a “I’m-not-good-enough thing”.
Sze Wing:	So I guess if I consider– so how do I say– when I’m conscious about it – and I don’t think it’s always happening – then how does it work, in the sense that I already identified it, so if I’m going through that journey and it’s my space, it’s just feeling more, “I’m enough,” or, “I’m strong,” or whatever the opposite of it more frequently, what would that be? Or it has to be something that I’m unconscious at this stage to figure that out. I think that’s the major thing that holds me back from the success it’s often this I’m-not-good-enough thing. But it’s not constantly happening, so how does it relate to this context?
Tatz:	Absolutely. It’s not constantly in our awareness but it operates in the background. And what you find is that when you find that core woundedness that there’s a whole belief system that comes with that. So it might be, “I am not good enough,” but then with, “I’m not good enough,” is all these other little things. So that, “I am not good enough,” becomes like an umbrella and it so if you can imagine an umbrella with– or a jellyfish, let’s use a jellyfish. And then it’s got all its tentacles that run down. And each of those tentacles are different belief structures that come with that. And so you’ve got this jellyfish that’s swimming through the ocean, and it’s got this core idea with all of these other concepts that float off of that. And it’s swimming through this ocean of life, and that’s what its experience is, is it’s all based around those beliefs. And there’s a whole structure of beliefs that come with that. And so having the awareness of what that is, is half the job done. If we’re aware of it we know, “Oh, okay,” then we can catch it. And so then there’s a process that comes with that. So when we got the awareness. We know what that is. We know what we’re working with.
Tatz:	Then there’s tools and strategies that we can use along the way. And ones that suit us. For me, I love writing, so I journal all the time. I also use my artwork. I also use days where I’ve spent– many days where I’ve totally immersed myself in that inner work process and watched my thoughts, and got to know and understand how my brain works. Because at the end of the day it’s just a software programme, so that those tentacles and that jellyfish can be completely shifted and changed, and we can do that by choice. And that’s where the science and the physiology explanations come in.
Tatz:	Dr Joe Dispenza talks about, neurons that fire together wire together, and we can create those new neural pathways. So this is where I really love bringing all those different aspects in because I can then explain that this is what’s happening. Every time you’re counteracting those negative thoughts or that negative belief and you’re replacing it with something else. You’re firing and wiring new neurons together and you’re creating new neural pathways in your brain, and the old pathways are breaking down and they’re literally just disappearing and you’re reprogramming your brain. So there are lots of different things. And I actually talk about them in my book as well. I’ve got a whole lot of information in there on all of the stuff that I’ve done. Over the last seven years, I’ve worked very, very intensely on myself. And I’ve pretty much explained that whole process in my first book, actually. And got a lot of the little questions and tools and things that I used along the way to help change all of that stuff for me.
Sze Wing:	Great. I’m going to ask you about your book in just a second. But I have to say, I love the jellyfish analogy. Because it’s like in the ocean, it’s there but doesn’t always bite you. Sometimes it hurts you but not always. And I would say, certain things, maybe through validation or through learning experience or I wire different pathways, and certain tentacles are deactivated, so some of these tentacles don’t hurt me. But sometimes a jellyfish comes up and one of the tentacles just hurts you. And I love the analogy because it’s there in the background but it’s not always hurting you, obviously. So I love that. And okay, so tell us about your book. You just released that and, The Inner Art of You. Is that the book you talk about? Is it the first or the second, or? Tell us about your book.
Tatz:	Yes. So it’s my first book, The Inner Art of You and I. And it’s based around, as I said before, around my healing journey and what that looked like. So in my personal experience of life, and I believe that this qualifies me in the work that I do far more than any of the studies that I’ve done, and all of that sort of stuff. I’ve lived very traumatic life experience. From childhood, I was sexually abused and also had inappropriate sexual advances from bosses later on in life and other men as well. So that was quite a theme in my life. In childhood, it was from about– I don’t know, from maybe about nine, 10 or something like that for a few years that I was sexually abused by my stepfather which was very confusing for me as well because he was my father. He never actually physically hurt me in that process either. So that was really confusing. And there was a lot of guilt and a lot of shame that came with that through my life which then led to drugs and cigarettes and alcohol and all that sort of stuff.
Tatz:	So I started drinking quite early on as a young person. I was smoking cigarettes, I think, by the time I was 12 years old. I had my first drag of a cigarette when I was nine. Yeah, by 12, I was smoking and drinking as well. By the time I was 15, I was taking LSD. And then, later on, that expanded to other drugs and a lot of alcohol in the process to sort of numb all of that. And I had suicide attempts as well. A previous relationship was abusive too. And so I’ve experienced a lot of trauma in my life and had a lot of trauma-related issues along the way.
Tatz:	So it’s been a massive journey. It’s been a huge journey, to be perfectly honest. And I think that’s what’s not I think, I know that’s what’s inspired the work that I do and my choice to be out there in the world and helping as many people as I can because I wanted to be the support that wasn’t there for me when I was struggling as a young person. So my book talks about some of those experiences. I go in a little bit deeper into some of my life experiences to be able to give context around everything. And then I also talk about all the different things that I put into place for myself to heal that journey and what that looked like for me.
Tatz:	So the book is– the way I like to describe it is it’s an inspirational empowerment book to offer people the space to recognise that they’re not alone in their suffering and that there is light at the end of the tunnel if they’re willing to go in and they’re willing to do the work to come home to themselves and hopefully, to guide people through some of the processes that I’ve gone through in the book there and allow them an opportunity to use that information to expand and to grow in their own selves as well. So yeah.
Sze Wing:	Sounds amazing because I do think willingness is everything. Intellectually, we can say, “We should do the right thing or get help, get support, solve this issue, la, la, la.” But until you are willing to not just read a book but go through some of this process, which is never too comfortable to confront whatever really happened– it’s not comfortable, perhaps even painful. But without the willingness, we can’t really grow. And so I think it will be of tremendous help for people who are perhaps even at the edge of whether we should take a deep dive into themself.
Tatz:	Yeah, absolutely.
Sze Wing:	Yeah. So okay. That comes to a really good place to wrap up our conversation. So if people are interested in your book The Inner Art of You and I as well as maybe your Sacred Soul Journey, what’s the best way to find you?
Tatz:	I have a website called Tatz Holmes so really easy. And also Blue Phoenix Spirits is another website that I have as well. My book is available there. It’s available online. I’m also giving away the eBook for free. So if anybody wanted the eBook, they’re welcome to send me an email through my website and I will send that eBook out to them. If they want a hardcopy, I’m looking to do a print run really soon. But otherwise, it’s also available on the online bookstores as well. So you can buy the eBook there or you can buy the hardcopy there as well. So there are different avenues. Sacred Soul Journey, absolutely, that’s available online as well. We don’t have to be in the same room. In fact, all of the work that I do, we don’t have to be in the same room, even down to doing energy healings or tarot readings. So that’s all available online as well. So, yeah, my website tatzholmes.com, that’s probably the best little avenue to go. And it explains a lot of the work that I do on my website as well. And there’s contact information and everything there. So yeah.
Sze Wing:	Yeah. And I will put the key website link down here on the blog post so it’s easy for people to reference and make sure the spelling is good. So don’t worry about it. You will see it here. And I just want to thank you for such an amazing conversation. And I hope that those who are out there and are thinking, “That just kind of stir up something”, it’s really important to at least check out your website to see what you’re doing, what you’re offering. Maybe that’s something really going to support them on their journey. So thank you so much.
Tatz:	Absolutely. Yeah. And just to add in there, I do offer a free 20-minute call for anybody interested in working with me. So we can have a chat for 20 minutes. We can see if we’re a good match or if what I do is what somebody’s looking for as well. So that’s an available option as well. So yeah.
Sze Wing:	Perfect.
Tatz:	And thank you so much for having me and for having this chat. It’s so lovely to see your beautiful face again.
Sze Wing:	Same here. Thank you.