If you a coach, spiritual teacher, health & wellness practitioner, or transformational leader, then you would likely have attended or interested in hosting your own retreat at some point. Running a retreat can boost your business, it can also accelerate the outcomes for your clients/students when they immerse in deep experiences with you.
For this week’s podcast, I talked to Tamara Golden, who is the go-to person if you want to craft your custom retreat to grow your brand and business. We recorded this interview during the COVID 19 lockdown time, which added extra desire for me to think about attending or hosting retreats in the near future. Imagine yourself being in a beautiful surrounding, connecting with like-minded people and doing deep transformational work. It is one of the most wonderful things I can think of to do!
I hope you will enjoy our interview. I surely loved our conversation as I learned so much from Tamara. If you don’t feel you are ready to run a retreat, she also talked about how she helps business owners to “get ready” and strategically plan how to run a successful retreat further down the track when it is the right time.
Tamara Golden is the owner, founder & CEO of Journeywork Retreats, a full-service retreat strategy and planning company operating across the US and worldwide. From do-it-yourself courses to done-for-you services, Journeywork Retreats supports coaches and transformation leaders in creating custom retreats that grow their brand. Tamara has combined her 20 years in travel, event planning and coaching into creating Journeywork Retreats.
- Tamara’s journey from working as a life and career coach for 20 years, then moved into the travel industry and eventually focus on retreats.
- You’ll need to strategize before planning a retreat. It is important to align with goals that promote long term business growth, increase revenue and client retention.
- How to create a high-value experience, think about what are the outcomes for the facilitators and participants.
- Crafting custom retreat to grow your business and brand.
- Set up for success, how to get to a level that is “retreat ready” for your business.
- Getting Retreat Ready online course – similar to a mini business coaching course, in the sense that you need to really know your target audience, target client and strategic marketing plan.
- To run a retreat, you need 2 fundamentals: 1. Some clients under your belt and 2. Content materials to cover. Without that educational piece, it becomes a vacation.
- Three key components for a retreat: 1) Educational content 2) Interaction with the destination and with the other members of the group and 3) Downtime – the part that many people forget to plan into. People need time and space for rejuvenation, for relaxation, but also to process what they’re learning.
- The difference between running a retreat and conference/boot camp and the business of bonding.
- A retreat offers an opportunity to do more experiential inner work, it also provides a more intimate atmosphere, more access and time with the facilitator.
- What it will be like post-COVID 19 in terms of events and the desire of in-person small group retreats. What can we do in preparation for that?
|Sze Wing:||Hi everyone. I’m really, really happy to introduce you to my guest today, Tamara Golden, all the way from the US. So we met in a networking event and we hit it off right away. And I’m going to tell you a little bit more about her, but I just want to say during this time, we’re recording this in the pandemic time, and it is so amazing to see how we can still connect to one another. Obviously, we cannot see each other in person, but through the internet. And it’s still wonderful to be able to reach out and connect with people from different places, in the world. So, first of all, thank you for joining us and welcome, Tamara.|
|Tamara:||Thank you. Very, very nice to be here.|
|Sze Wing:||So very quickly, let me just introduce my guests to everybody. So Tamara Golden is the owner, founder, and CEO of Journey Work Retreats. Which I’m so excited to ask you a lot of question about it because I love retreats – side note. [laughter] It’s a full-service retreat strategy and planning company operate across us and worldwide and from do-it-yourself courses to do-it-for-you services. So it’s kind of covered the whole range. And Journey Work Retreats supports coaches and transformation leaders in creating custom retreats that grow the brand, which I’m also excited about. So two hats; one is that from a customer point of view, and the other one from a business owner point of view. I mean, I’m so excited to talk to you today because I love it. Anyway, so Tamara has combined her 20 years experience in traveling, event planning, and coaching. So a very unique– I think it’s the unique combination of your personal experience and background, but also the business that you are running. So really happy to be able to chat with you today, so yey.|
|Tamara:||Thank you for having me.|
|Sze Wing:||Yes. So, first of all, I often like to ask a little bit of people’s background because it sometimes shows why they become who they are and how did they get there? A lot of people find it very interesting and often inspiring, encouraging them to do sometimes something risky or sometimes just follow the dream. So I know you have 20 years experienced, but how did you really get to create this business; the one that you’re running now? You may have tons of different business before. [laughter]|
|Tamara:||No, no. I actually came from a coaching background, so I worked for 20 years as a life and career coach. And I worked both in higher education and then I also had a private practice. And so I worked with graduate students. I worked with, gosh, all range of ages and across all different industries when I have the private coaching business as well. So I started out really in this place of– I mean, I’ve always been and a person that loves to get people from point a to point B. I mean, that journey piece is very big for me, and really empower people to realize their dreams, to grow as individuals. And that’s where I started, was in that, what I call, personal development space. I then entered the travel space and I started off doing what you would normally think of. I had an offer to become an independent contractor for someone who owned a travel agency. And at that point, I was feeling a little burned out from being in the coaching world for 20 years. And I was working already with international graduate students. So it might seem like a very strange thing to go from career coaching and life coaching to doing travel. But I had always been involved in things very international. So there wasn’t such a big leap. And I started off doing what you think of traditional travel agents doing: booking honeymoons and booking family vacations. I love the creativity of creating an itinerary for people, but it didn’t do anything for my heart space. It really didn’t fill my soul.|
|Tamara:||And when I finally came across retreats, it was like this moment when the clouds open and the sun rays shine down. And it was absolutely the perfect marriage for me because it incorporates my passion around personal growth and personal development – with all of the years of organizational planning, logistics trip planning that I did – with then the resources sources I have available to me as a licensed seller of travel. So it’s absolutely the perfect match for me and I really believe that all of my life experiences have brought me to this day to be doing exactly what I’m doing now. I really feel it’s my calling in life.|
|Sze Wing:||Awesome. And I felt exactly the same. So some people may not know. At the moment, if you read my bio, it will say, author, speaker, and coach, but actually I come from an acting background. I also was a casting director for a long time. So sometimes we don’t think it’s relevant, but when you talk to people and a conversation, then you realize, “Oh, you did that.” But then you realize everything has its place. So your background, my background completely different but it all brought us to where we need to be. And also the quality skills and sometimes experience, and also people skills or things like that. All blending together because kind of you need certain tools that you didn’t even know you needed. Until that showed up. So really, I really love what you said about nothing is wasted and your heart moment came and you just know this is right. So my next question is, I love retreatsmyself personally because I love travelling, I like to take myself from my normal life to go somewhere pretty and enjoy like a nicer surrounding. And the plus often retreats that I go to have a personal development angle or spiritual retreat type of angle. So what kind of retreat– I know that things probably evolve over time, but what kind of retreat that you were running or are running that has that combination? So tell me how the retreat’s like?|
|Tamara:||Absolutely. And the really important thing to understand is that I don’t actually run any retreats. So I partner with coaches and transformation leaders, wellness practitioners, artists, speakers, I partner with other entrepreneurs who want to take their clients off on retreat. And I help them really from soup to nuts. I mean, we start big picture around how they want to embed retreats into their long-term business growth strategy. How is it going to help them with their client retention? How is it going to help them generate more revenue? So talking about a very, very big picture. Before we start throwing a party, we got to figure out why we’re throwing a party. [laughter] We really strategize big picture and then we start planning the actual retreat itself: when it’s going to be, where it’s going to be, what it’s going to look like, activities, excursions, meals, venue, we get into all of the details. And so I really do everything with them, from the strategy piece, how it’s going to grow their business, to creating them and bringing to fruition the vision they have for that retreat and making it an amazingly high-value experience. It’s going to be an amazing experience for them as a facilitator, but also, of course, for their clients are going to be coming with them.|
|Sze Wing:||But I guess, you know why I find it so different than other event planners, so to speak, is that because you have the coaching and personal development background, so you kind of know what they’re doing and what is important. If you come from that space, you will say, well, you probably– even a spiritual retreat, you probably don’t want to run in the city of Milan or something. I don’t know. I’m just making it up. So that really, can you speak the language, right? I think that’s what it is. If I want to run a retreat, I know you are the person to talk to because you understand where I’m coming from, what would work for me, what are my risks? And we will have some common issues from a certain industry perspective. So you will kind of know it. So that’s really amazing.|
|Tamara:||That’s my secret sauce. I consider that my secret sauce because I mean, there are travel planners. There are certain travel planners, travel agents that can help with the travel aspect. There are retreat planners, I mean, excuse me, event planners, who could be there onsite with you during the retreat. but I, I feel like I have a very, very unique perspective because I do have that coaching piece and I am a solo entrepreneur. So I understand I’m very keen that this is something that helps my clients grow their business. I mean, there’s the feel-good , deep work aspect of the retreat, which is absolutely an essential core piece. That’s usually why facilitators are drawn to wanting to do retreats. They want to do that deeper work with their clients, but I’m very clear. It needs to be something that grows their business and grows them quite honestly. And so it’s that coaching piece that I bring and the fact that I’m a solo entrepreneur who runs a business myself, I really bring those two pieces into the mix. And I feel like all of that together is my secret sauce.|
|Sze Wing:||Love it. And so now coming from different angle. So for example, I know a lot of people in my community, like a solo entrepreneur, I’ve been coaching, teaching, speaking, writing for a while, but taking the next step of taking people to retreat, it can be quite scary because there may be a financial commitment. And how do we do that? There’s a lot of things that come around that, but then obviously it seems so juicy to take your people to a great place, to do intensive workshops and enjoy the scenery. So I get that will become a question. So for a newbie, does it have to be a certain level of you have to have like 2000 members, if you want to do it? How do you coach say someone who’s excited about this prospect, that worry, that is too big a piece to chew.|
|Tamara:||Well, actually, I’m really glad you asked this. I don’t think you even know this, but I actually offer courses for people who are interested in someday hosting retreats. So actually I have two different levels of courses. My real intro course is called Get Retreat Ready. And that’s actually for entrepreneurs who are new to the business. They’re still just growing their business, so I walk them through kind of that tough love, but I really tell them, “Look, here’s what you need to have in place before you think about doing this, because I’m not about setting people up for failure. I’m all about setting up people for success.” And so I really tell them this is what you need to have in place before you start thinking about even hosting a retreat. So it’s called Get Retreat Ready. And then the next level up from that is, of course, when people are ready to host their first retreat, but they want to understand the nuts and bolts that they really need to understand before they step into this place. Because the biggest thing I hear from people is, I don’t know what I don’t know. And that’s what scares people. Once they understand the process, once they understand the pieces, and they understand what goes into picking a venue, what the legalities are, how you put it all together, how you map it out, create this little plug and play action plan for them. So they just come out with everything already planned their little timeline and planning actions in place. That makes it so much easier for them. It makes it easier for them in terms of understanding the logistics, but just sort of that emotional, psychological hurdle of now they understand what it always going to look like. They know what to expect. And I think that that takes a huge amount of fear off the table for people and trepidation.|
|Sze Wing:||I love it because you kind of need to know how to walk before you can run. And when I was starting out, run workshops seminar, and always keep it very lean as in no costs, just doing in my living room, speaking to 5, 10, 20 people. And then you start from there and then eventually you can grow bigger. And there are a lot of people who want to come in strong, maybe rent a really fancy venue, but then only five people showed up. And that wouldn’t work and you get so discouraged and you decide to quit and that’s not helpful for the world. Either because you may have very good things to offer, but just wasn’t the right step. So I really like the two-step approach to you to get ready. And then hit it hard. So if I want to get– because there’s so much in what you say that really interests me and I think helpful for other people who are listening. So first of all, a couple of basics, so get ready, what are the key things that you think that you cover and important to think about from the introduction level? Do you cover email lists and things like that? What are your basics?|
|Tamara:||Yeah, the basics. In my Get Retreat Ready course, for example, we talk about– and the beauty of this is that getting retreat ready is the same pieces that you would be doing to grow your business anyway. And so it’s almost like a little mini business coaching course if you will, it’s around making sure that you have identified your target audience, your target client. Because you’re going to waste so much time and money trying to advertise to people if you don’t really have that honed in. So who your target audience is, your target client? How are you going to be advertising to them? Do you have a funnel set up? Do you have a way for people to find out about you? Do you have a way to actually step into working with you? And then thinking about what are the next steps? How do you engage them at an even deeper level? So having kind of this funnel approach, right? And this is nothing new, this is all part of a marketing plan. So do you have a marketing plan? Because if you’re coming into the business and you want to someday grow to a place where you’re hosting retreats, you do have to have a certain clientele following you, and you’ve got to be bringing people into work with you. And so really thinking through how you’re doing that strategically. Are you working with a business coach who’s going to be keeping you accountable for growing your business and all the things you need to have in place to make that happen? So it’s not a brain surgery that we’re doing here, it’s really the same steps that you would be taking that you should be taking in any case to grow your business.|
|Tamara:||You need to have– you need to have a decent number of clients. And people ask me how many that’s such an “it depends” answer, but you do have to have a certain number of clients. You need to have people in the room. So you have to have been in operation for a little while and have some clients under your belt. And you need to have thought through kind of where you’re going with your business and be serious about your business and really wanting to grow because when you start doing retreats, it’s almost by definition and by default, I’ve noticed, for the people who are really wanting to up level. It’s for that person, that visionary entrepreneur, who’s like, “Yeah, I’m ready to take it to the next step. I’m serious. I’m going to grow my business. I really want to serve my clients. I really want to knock this out of the park.” So it’s really some of those basic fundamentals that I cover in getting Retreat Ready. But I also talk about some things you need to have in place. Things you need to be thinking about before you plan your first retreat as well.|
|Sze Wing:||Excellent. It is so true. It talks about the retreat, but it’s really a business course as well. I’m with you. And I think it is really helpful because, look, it’s a commitment in both ways. Is the customer willing to spend one week with you? That’s a big commitment time and cost. And at the same time, if you’re committed to your business, you want to take people to retreat. You really got to have enough experience and time and everything put in there. So it’s all about the commitment that asking what– retreat is not like buying a $10 ebook. It’s a lot more. Because when you buy a ticket to a retreat, you got to go to. You’re not going to leave the book on the shelf, so. [laughter]|
|Tamara:||Yeah. And so I tell people, back to your question, the two fundamentals that you need. I mean, if you have nothing else, these are the two things that you need. You need to have some clients and you need to have some teaching material. You need to have some educational content that you’ve put together, right? If you have nothing else, those are the two pieces that you need. And so the educational content, and I tell people, this is how a retreat is so different than a conference or a boot camp or a seminar, is that you’re only going to teach or train two to four hours a day tops. And some people get– that takes them a back and I’m like, “No, no, no, no. This is a retreat.” So their issues, there needs to be educational content. Yes, there does because otherwise it’s a vacation. They’re there to learn from you and learn from your wisdom as the facilitator. So yes, you are teaching or training, but the rest of the time you’re bonding with the group, you’re enjoying the destination. You’re enjoying this beautiful venue that you’ve chosen because that’s part of the whole retreat experience that people are signing up for. And all of that bonding, by the way, I have a whole– my talk that I do, I do a talk called The Business of Bonding. And that bonding that the clients are doing with you and they’re doing with each other in the group, that is going to lead to a lot of increased revenue down the road, so.|
|We just hit something, I must get deeper. [laughter] Because I just had an aha moment because I think in my head, I wasn’t making a clear distinction. I almost think it’s like doing almost– I mean, not consciously subconsciously, that I probably was imagining a semi-conference in a pretty setting, but actually no. A retreat is not running a conference in a pretty setting, which we then say retreat. No. What is so interesting, and what’s such an aha for me, is that because actually, people who want to run a conference or want to run a retreat, sometimes the goal is the same. They may want to give the client lots of benefits and value. They want to make money and get closer to the client, whatever that is. That may be the same goal, but it’s two completely different strategies and way of delivering that. So how do you tell people you need to decide you’re running a retreat or you’re running a conference. If you’re running a conference, probably you’re not interested in partnering with them because that’s not what you kind of do, so.|
|Tamara:||Yeah, they’re very different animals. And some people do both. I mean, you think about people who have large 300-person events for three days, and maybe it’s a very low ticket price to get in, but then there’s going to be an up-sell at the end. The big difference is really the numbers. Because with the retreat, it’s very small, it’s a very intimate group. I mean, the retreats that I normally am planning or helping to plan, are anywhere from 8 to 14 people and maybe at most 20. But once you get past 20, you really start to lose that intimacy name. Think about the number of people that you can really have around a large dining room table all at once. So you kind of start to lose the intimacy. It’s not to say it can’t happen, there are people who do retreats that are certainly more than 20, but it starts to take on a very different flavour. You need to orchestrate that and navigate that very carefully. So it’s about the intimacy and the people have normally paid a higher price to be there. So these are already your VIP clients. So it was a great question because the other larger event that you do, could be a feeder into a coaching package, right? If you have an up-sell, you might be up-selling, a group coaching package, or maybe an individual coaching package. From there, you would then maybe up-sell the retreat. This is why all of this has to be thought through and reverse engineered so that you set yourself up to successfully fill your events and put them in front of people at a time and at a price point where it’s an easy yes for them. And so all of that really requires some good strategic thinking. And that’s part of what I work with my retreat facilitators. So very, very different in the nature of the event, the number of people, the cost to attend, the number of hours that you’re sitting. Most of those three-day events you’re being talked to from the stage. Either by the host or various people that the host has partnered with, collaborators. So it’s a lot more being talked to, it’s much more content-rich than the opportunity to experience the other people in the room. And certainly the venue or the destination. How many of us have gone to a three-day conference and never stepped foot outside of the hotel? [laughter]|
|Sze Wing:||And drink too much coffee.|
|Tamara:||That’s not what I’m about when it comes to retreats. Retreats are the anti conference. [laughter]|
|Sze Wing:||The more you talk about it, I thought about it more and a lot of people I work with, whether it’s my client or my peers in the health and well-being industry, spiritual teachers and coaches. And actually the conference may not work for us. As in we running it versus we participating in it, because the conference is so intensive learning. And that its play, that’s in its merit, but actually for me, it probably would suit me better to run retreat because I would take the ladies to a more inner journey, talk about what matters to them, how are we going to harness that? We still do a bit of maybe goal setting or really doing things, but not as intense as in a Tony Robbins way. [laughter]|
|Tamara:||And think about this because part of what makes it such a higher ticket item is the amount of access they have to you as a facilitator. So if you’re in a room with 300 people, they’re not going to get very much access to you. But what makes it a higher price point and really a VIP experience for someone to come on a retreat with you, is that they get you, they get authentic. They get you unplugged and authentic, okay? When they’re with you, it’s several days on end and in a very, very small group. They get to understand how you think, they get all of your pearls of wisdom. From what you’re teaching formally to conversations around the dinner table. And that’s what they’re paying for because they want that quality time, quality experience, and quality wisdom that you’re there to impart over those several days. Because you’re going to save the best for those intimate small groups.|
|Sze Wing:||So that’s such a– really opened my eyes in so many levels. And I have to say that from the sound of things, it may suit someone like me, I will love it, but it may not suit some people. They’re really introverted, they don’t want that sort of access. They may be okay to type out content in the background or pump out a lot of written materials, but to be face-to-face and so intimate, it’s not for everybody.|
|Tamara:||Yeah. It’s not for everybody, and you also want to be very selective with the people that you’re bringing along. So that’s why it really tends to be clients that you’ve already worked with because not only are they vetting you, but you’re vetting them. I mean, do you want to be with them for several days on end? [laughter] That’s a very serious question for you to ask. So it’s not necessarily for everyone, but a lot of people what’s interesting, [inaudible], is I noticed, so many people have a calling to do this. And I use the word calling very purposely because either they’ve been on retreat, or they know someone who’s been on retreat, or they’ve been in circles where people have talked about being on retreat or leading retreats. And there’s just something about it. There’s some seed that gets planted, right? And it grows into a calling. The people who want to take their clients on retreat, they’re very clear that this is something they– this is a non-negotiable. They really want to do this. It feels very important to them, and it feels very, very sacred to them to be able to have that intimate time with a subset of their clients, and the clients view it as a very sacred time as well. An incredible opportunity to have that special time with you.|
|Sze Wing:||I feel the same. I feel a lot of breakthroughs come from those space that you allow yourself. I mean, you don’t have to do eight hours of learning and listening and talking. Sometimes you have a little bit of learning, but then it’s about the stage you allowed yourself to think, or to not think at all and to enjoy the place and talk with people and just switch off. And sometimes, I personally get more breakthrough and new ideas after a meditation retreat, or just spoke to the nature of a few days facilitated or not. For me, that brings a very different value. And I really love retreats that’s why I’m so excited to talk to you. [laughter]|
|Tamara:||I always tell people– and thank you for saying that because I always– and we’re talking about basics. I should tell you what I tell people are the three fundamental components of a retreat. So the first I’ve talked about is educational content. There has to be some of that. The second is. Interaction with the destination and with the other members of the group, there has to be some of that. And the third element is the one that most people forget about, and it’s the one you’re not going to find in a conference, and that is downtime. Because the other thing that you want to allow your people, is time to process because you’re probably taking them through some pretty– you’re taking them through your best stuff, your deepest material. And it could be a healing retreat. It could be a spiritual retreat. I mean, there’s different levels of depth that people go, right? But you’ve got to allow people time and space for rejuvenation, for relaxation, but also to process what they’re learning. Because the other complaint you hear time and again, and I certainly have experienced it, is you come off these-three day conferences that are 12 hours a day, and you’re so fried and saturated that you come away and you literally don’t put anything to use that you’ve just learned because you don’t have any time to assimilate it. And so I tell people you’ve got to put in some downtime. And that downtime, you can be asking people to journal. You can be asking them to do a meditation, a silent reflection. Maybe they get into a dyad and they do a deeper conversation with another member of the group. You can make it a structured downtime if you will, but you’re allowing them that time to assimilate and process.|
|Sze Wing:||Love it. And I think that is|
|Sze Wing:||Super important. I agree completely. So coming back to where we are now in life. As we’re recording this, we’re still in COVID-19 period, so many places still locked down and restriction. We cannot do big group events and stuff like that. So I find it interesting to do the interview now, because personally, I think there will be a huge uptake and huge appetite for in-person events, especially going to the beautiful places after and love people needed the retreat, because it just takes so much on the mental capacity, and there are people going through a really tough time as well. So I personally see there will be huge uptake later once we ease the restrictions. So what’s your take on that and what do you advise people to think about? Like business owners that who can’t do anything in person for a while, but then once restriction lifted, maybe we’re eager to do something. So what’s your take and what’s your advice?|
|Tamara:||Yeah. Perfect. I mean, this coming, well, Tuesday, July 7th, I’m actually going to be offering a webinar with another event planner called Events: Where Do We Go From Here, to exactly open up this candid dialogue and conversation about where are we with in-person events? Because so many of us– I mean, let’s forget about wanting to hug our friends and our relatives we haven’t seen. So many of us, from a business standpoint, rely on in-person events to some extent, small or big, to generate clicks and to generate revenue. So this is a real-time of uncertainty and frustration for a lot of people because they’re wondering when can I start planning? Where can I start planning? How does the planning look like? So we’re actually going to be addressing all of that on July 7th, and really starting that conversation very candidly. So to answer your question. There are a few things that people can be doing now, and there are a few things that we have to wait to do. Okay? So what I would say to you is to start the planning, the planning really needs to start now because whether it’s a small event, like a retreat or it’s that big 300-person conference event that you want to do. Here’s something that everybody needs to hear loud and clear, all of these events that got cancelled in 2020, when do you think they’re going to be pushed to 2021? So if you are thinking about doing a retreat or an event in 2021– we have a phrase here in the US, I don’t know if it exists in Australia, but you better get on that like white on rice. Because it’s going to be a very– the calendar for 2021 is going to be very full with your venues. And it brings up some opportunities.|
|Tamara:||So I’m even encouraging people to think about starting locally. Start locally, especially if you’re in a place that– different places are coming out of COVID-19 and still contending with COVID-19. And it’s going to take them a while longer to come out. So everybody’s local communities coming out of this at a different level, but you can start with doing some smaller events in-person in your community. And plan for those now, because a few months a lot of venues have their fall wide open because their larger events have cancelled. They are eager for your business. There is some silver lining in the negotiation power that you have right now to get really good pricing. I would put something on the books for the fall, and then if you need to push it forward, you can. And certainly, if you’re thinking about planning something for 2021, you’ve really got to start that planning now, and you can still be doing virtual retreats, virtual events, virtual workshops, virtual seminars, leading up to your in-person events because you’re still going to be building towards filling those someday. I mean, we are not going to be sitting at our homes forever. That much is clear. [laughter] And you touched on a very good point because once the flood gates open, once we start to ease from social distancing and we do start to get the green light on moving forward out and gathering. The retreats are a very safe place to start because by definition it’s a small group, right? But there’s going to be a yearning for that in-person community and connection, and there’s going to be a lot of need for people to do a lot of processing for all that has come up over these past several months. I mean, people have dealt with challenges fears, frustrations, vulnerabilities that they’ve never had to contend with. And so I think that there’s going to be a real need for retreats and a real craving for people to come together and do that kind of processing in a very safe place with other people.|
|Sze Wing:||Perfect. I think it’s the perfect way to wrap up our interview today because I think it’s really hopeful. So it is really time to plan. And if you’re listening and you think this is for you, that’s your calling, I think it’s clear that you should have a chat with Tamara because she will help you to plan big and small. So maybe she will advise you to how to plan locally first and have a thorough check and also chat. And also see whether which level are you, are you preparing for a retreat or are you ready to do one? So I really thoroughly enjoy our conversation. And for those who want to connect with Tamara directly, so the best place to find you is on?|
|Tamara:||Well, certainly you can find all of my contact information on my website, which is www.journeyworkretreats.com. So, journey, J-O-U-R-N-E-Y, work, W-O-R-K, and then the word retreats, plural, dot com. And you can find my email on there email@example.com. So that’s probably the easiest and fastest way to find me because I am on email incessantly. [laughter]|
|Sze Wing:||Fantastic. I will put all the details on this blog post/podcast detail page. And also your social media handle as well. I’ll put that in as well. So people can [crosstalk].|
|Sze Wing:||So thank you so much for today. Wonderful [inaudible]. I’m eager to plan and think about retreats as well because I would love to go or maybe run some in the next couple of years because I really would love to get on there.|
|Tamara:||Yeah. I have to say, I just travelled to Santa Fe and Sedona last week, two places in the United States where there are perfect, perfect places for retreats. And I was doing site inspections of several retreat venues and it felt so good to get away and so good to be in these beautiful places full of nature. And it just it’s wonderful. So I can’t wait for us to get back to travelling and I certainly can’t wait for us to get back to in-person retreats. And I’d love to talk with anyone for whom this resonates and to start thinking through a plan for the future.|
|Sze Wing:||Thank you so much.|