88. Emotional Evolution: Interview with Lisa Jayne

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How often do you sit with your emotions and try to understand why you feel the way you do?

Many of us are brought up with an attitude that being rational is better or we should stop being “so emotional“. Certainly if we are acting against our better judgement because we are overly emotional over a matter is not a good thing. But so is denying or ignore our emotions and only rely on our thinking without our feeling.

Don’t get me wrong, both rationale and emotion have its place, they both can give us important information that to help us to make better decisions.

Some said being confident is a learned skill. I say, being able to understand and stay in touch with our emotion is also a learned skill. So today I have an interview with Lisa Jayne precisely on this subject matter to share with you.

Lisa Jayne is an author, speaker and visionary for the path of Emotional Evolution. With over 15 years experience as an Emotions Practitioner and Educator, she has accompanied thousands of individuals into their emotional worlds and become a passionate advocate for mastering the ability to use our feelings to access ‘flow’, purpose and incredible inner freedom. Lisa works in her private practice and with audiences, virtually, through her workshops and as a speaker. 

Lisa has channelled her passion for large scale impact into Bunji Global – a free, on-demand, not-for-profit platform that provides mainstream and alternative emotional and mental health support for people when they need it, without barriers to access. Through education and therapy that supports individuals to meet short term emotional needs with ease and effectiveness, Bunji Global aims to impact the prevalence of long term emotional patterns that disrupt relationships, foster mental illness and lead to PTSD. 

Interview Highlights

• Emotional Evolution – what it is and why it is so important 
• Women have a higher tendency to share their feelings as compare to men. We want to become more aware of what our emotions are telling us, instead of reacting to our emotions. We want to become more empowered by having a better understanding of our emotions. 
• For Athena women – logical, analytical and pragmatic women who spend most of the time in our heads. We tend to think our way through everything and not necessarily have the inside-out approach. 
• We often expect or subconsciously want other people to meet our emotional needs. And what emotional evolution does is we seek to create connection and unity in every moment. We want to be able to communicate in a way that doesn’t blame our partner or create division.
• Our feelings show us if we are out of alignment, and if so, we can ask ourselves, how can we own that feeling? What can I do to change my behaviour? What do we need to do in order to take our power back in creating freedom and relief? 
• Use our emotions as GPS
• As children, we look to our parents to meet our emotional and physical needs, but as adults, we need to learn and start to take self-responsibility as you are the only person that can ever meet your emotional needs.
• How to harness the power of love during COVID 19 and isolation times
• Understand when we need to be reminded about true acceptance and when we need to communicate boundaries without withdrawing love.
• When you are burnt out – think about how to re-fill your cup
• Bunji Global – a platform where therapists can donate their time so that people who need immediate health and mental support can access the platform to find a therapist without any financial limitations to block their access
• The reason it needs to be immediate is because the long-term problems of PTSD, suicide, social anxiety, etc wouldn’t be there if we’re able to reach out and get help.
• There are times we might not want to see a mainstream practitioner. You might need to see someone that can do past life regression or an acupuncturist. Bunji helps to level the playing field between mainstream and alternative health support.
• Early intervention or seeking help is a better option than waiting for a problem to become a crisis.

To learn more about Lisa Jayne or Bunji Global, please visit:

www.iamlisajayne.com

www.webounceback.com.au

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Video

Transcript

Sze Wing:	Hi, everyone. I’m really happy to have Lisa Jayne with me today. I met her not so long ago but I was blown away by her work and her initiatives. So I thought it would be incredible to get her to be my guest today. So welcome to my show, Lisa.
Lisa:	Aw, thank you. Thank you so much for having me. It’s been beautiful connecting with you.
Sze Wing:	Great. So first of all, I was going to start with an introduction for those who may not know who Lisa is. So Lisa Jayne is an author, speaker, and visionary for the path of emotional evolution, which we’re going to talk about, of course. She has over 15 years of experience as an emotions practitioner and educator. And she has a company, thousands of individuals in their own emotional journeys, and she’s a passionate advocate for mastering the ability to use our feelings to access flow, purpose, and incredible inner freedom. So obviously, Lisa works in a private practise with her audience virtually and through workshops and speaking engagements. But now, we often have to do it on Zoom. So that’s lots of things that you’ve done. I can see and I know a lot of people also connected with Lisa told me that as well. And recently, she has channelled her passion into something I’d really love to talk about today, called the Bunji Global. It’s a free, on-demand, not-for-profit platform that provides mainstream alternative emotional and mental health to provide support for people when they need it without barriers to access. Through education and therapy, they support individuals to meet short-term emotional needs with ease and effectiveness. So Bunji Global aims to impact the prevalence of long-term emotional patterns that disrupt relationships, also mental illness that leads to PTSD. So I guess, we have a lot to talk about today related to emotions, don’t we?
Lisa:	Now, I noticed that too, so we better cracking.
Sze Wing:	So first of all, I guess, I often like to ask my guests, first of all, you talked a lot about emotional evolution. So why it’s so important? Why are you passionate about it? How do you come to this– become such an advocate for this?
Lisa:	Okay. Well, the way I see it is that we actually– I believe the way we’ve been educated the way we live and the way we’ve been taught by our parents and our society, even what we see in our movies is sort of upside down. And what I’ve come to know is that if we approach our lives slightly differently, and even our relationships, based on different foundations, we can experience freedom and joy and we actually grow the beautiful loving feeling that we have in our hearts, which means that we feel this fear and insecurity. When I look out onto the world and I work with people and I observe what’s going on, I’ve noticed that we are very clever as a species. We’ve had so many evolutions. We’ve had mental evolutions, technological evolutions. We’ve had physical– I mean, now, so many people are aware of looking after their body and going to the gym. And we’ve even had the spiritual new age sort of movement where people are tapped into the more spiritual side of life. And yet, we still have eight suicides a week in Australia, which is astronomical, and that’s actually small compared most places. We still have really massive amounts of social anxiety. There are so many things that still plague us, if you like, as a species, even though we know all this stuff. And I believe that the key is the emotional evolution. And the reason that this is the key is that this has to do with our feeling world and actually not to do with our head. So we’ve been very good at learning more about stuff. We’ve been very good at understanding why things work. Most of us could tell you why we have these behaviours that we repeat. And yet, we still seem to be powerless over dissolving those patterns. And that’s because the solution is within our emotional world, not within our head. And so for me, the whole understanding of our emotional evolution is key to ourselves being completely empowered in our own lives and feeling clear and getting into alignment with our true purpose, which is what my purpose is.
Sze Wing:	And a couple of things already, one of the things is that we often hear people– you did talk about some of those very powerful statistics. And here’s the thing what pops up in my mind is that we often say women tend to talk about our problems and at least we share and guys tend not to. So because I know you work with a lot of individuals and groups, so you probably will have a better understanding and different perspective. And do you think it tends to be true that women tend to talk about it so we’re more aware of all these issues women have? While guys, they even don’t talk about it so maybe they’re not even part of the statistics. What’s your take on that?
Lisa:	Yeah. I do. I think in a way, I think we’re more capable of sharing. And I do believe that connection and reaching out and talking to people is so helpful whenever you’re in any sort of a situation. I still feel though that there’s a level that we haven’t gotten to, men and women, where we recognise our emotional need and we learn how to meet it ourselves. And that emotional evolution is a little bit scary because we have patterns that we’ve developed or strategies that we’ve had all of our lifetimes. So even for women, there’s another level that we can go to where we completely take back our power in situations. But working with a few men, I know that sometimes they can’t even get in touch with their feelings. So it makes it– I think often, they get to a place where they’re not even aware and they’re just reactive. So yeah, I do see that. But a lot more men are becoming aware now too and wanting to be more empowered in that realm of feelings.
Sze Wing:	Good sign. Another thing that came to my mind while we’re just talking was I work with goddess archetypes. And one of the types is Athena, which is the goddess of wisdom and craft, and she is typically someone very clever, a strategist, she sees the whole picture, and she is very successful in anything she does because she is very focused, very efficient. But the downside tends to be she’s always in her head. So because you were talking about how we tend to think our way through everything and not necessarily have the inside-out approach that where we think about how we feel or talk about emotion in a way that can be truly helpful. And I think that really rings the bell because I work with so many Athena women that may be very successful in the business until they hit the point where they may be triggered by becoming a mother or triggered because they realise, “Is that all that is?” And they want to get in touch with their inner voice more, less in the head, more in the heart. And that’s sort of like a trigger for– they need to have the emotion evolution in order to grow and mature , they kind of hit the ceiling. Because how much success do you want with a material one? They’re already CEOs, so. And I think it was really interesting when you brought that up.
Lisa:	But I also see that a lot of women– because let’s face it, women have these – and I’m not saying men don’t – but I’m saying I see a lot of women. We are capable of doing so much at once and doing it really, really well, and I see it all the time. These women that just have– they’re very successful in almost every area. And yet in their relationships, they have these dysfunctional relationships. I know I was one of those people. It’s like, “I don’t understand how I can be so smart and so on the ball and be able to run a business so well, and yet I’m in a relationship with this person, and I can’t figure out how to get it to work.” And I hear that story again and again.
Sze Wing:	Wow.
Lisa:	Are you waiting for me to tell you? [laughter]
Sze Wing:	Yeah. Okay. And then what happened? You said you included. So then you hit the point where you think, “Oh gosh. I kind of missed a step here.” And then what happened?
Lisa:	Yeah, so what happened for me is that I ended up realising that there was another way to be in a relationship, and I was just never taught. The way that we’re in a relationship is based on expecting or subconsciously wanting other people, like our partner, to meet our emotional needs. So even when something’s going down, we sort of want them to step in and help us, or we might blame, or we might get angry. If we’re feeling powerless over something, we end up maybe taking it out on our partner. All of those dynamics that we’re taught is normal, like this is a normal behaviour in a relationship, actually, it’s abnormal, and it’s so far away from who we are as human beings because it creates division. And what emotional evolution does is we seek to create connection and unity in every moment. So even if I’m feeling something, it’s my feeling, and I want to really work with what charge and own that and grow from that. And then I need to be able to communicate that in a way that doesn’t blame my partner or create division. I want to communicate it in a way that creates connection and understanding so that he can support me. Because honestly, we actually drive our partners away when we need them most, and that is just madness. And yet nobody even told me that. I couldn’t even see that I was doing that.
Sze Wing:	Do you think there’s something to do with the fact that we are so used to the masculine energy which is the competitive, the doing, the keep-going energy out there at work, and we tend to bring that masculine energy rather than the feminine energy when we’re at home in a relationship? Because you mentioned the word “connection” and “understanding”. It seems to me that’s part of the strength of the feminine power, which is about connection, communication, and understanding each other. Do you think that’s partly because we’re so used to wearing the masculine mask, and then we just wear it all day? [laughter]
Lisa:	I think it goes deeper than that, actually. The way I look at it is that we have a feeling, and we have an emotional charge on agitation. And the first thing we do is we go into our head to try and figure it out and analyse it, or we’re looking out to try and fix it, like, “What can we do to make this right? How do we–” so always doing this going outside. And we’re creating dynamics of victim-persecutor-rescuer often in the process of trying to deal with what’s happening. The emotional evolution comes when we go, “I’ve got a feeling. Oh, hang on a minute. I’m going to go in. I’m actually going to go and sit in who I am really am. I’m going to sit in the essence of me. I’m going to learn more about who I am. I’m going to tap into my innate power. And I’m going to sit there, and I’m going to question, ‘Well, what is this feeling? Where did it start? How did it get here? What has it got to do with? Where can I own this?’ and see where I might be putting myself in a position to be hurt.” I might be walking into a relationship or a situation often that really hurts me, and yet I haven’t stopped to look at my feeling. Because my feelings are telling me, they’re telling me that I’m not in alignment with myself. They’re telling me they’re an opportunity for me to see where I have walked away from myself. So if rather than keep walking away from myself and try to fix it, I come back and sit in myself and go, “Okay. What is it I need to do in this situation to take my power back? What is it that I need to look at? What is it I need to own? And how can I change my behaviour so that in this situation, I’m really served by this, so I can create more freedom, I can find some relief?
Sze Wing:	Sounds like our emotions are like the GPS, isn’t it? They kind of help?
Lisa:	Well, they do. They talk about that. And that’s absolutely true. So it’s seeing your emotions as a signal or as your friend, because they’re trying to bring you back to who you are. But then it’s also– the emotional evolution comes when not only do you do that, you actually put that into practice and you start to change your behavior, and you start to take self-responsibility to the point where you understand you’re the only person that can ever meet your emotional needs. And yet, as adults, we still are looking to our parents to meet emotion needs or our partners or even our kids. And it’s like, once we– because nobody can meet our emotion needs. They’re inside our body, really. And we try to meet other people’s emotional needs. We take feeling responsibility for people all the time. And that sets up an unhealthy dynamic, too. So it’s like that, coming back to that– and that is so empowering. Because there’s so much– you think about how powerful anger is. So if you take charge of your emotional needs, all of that power becomes the power that you have to live your life. So your life becomes so much more empowered.
Sze Wing:	That’s wonderful. In a lot of spiritual teaching, you talk about instead of harnessing the power of fear or anger – anger is also part of the fear – if you harness the power of love, you can do a lot more in your life, much more constructively. And now, talking about to harness the power of love, during this time we’re recording, it is still COVID-19, we’re in isolation. And I know that a lot suffer from being so isolated. And if they’re living by themselves, or maybe they’re not very used to using Zoom or other tools to connect with people, it is a really challenging time. What are your tips or advice? Because this is sort of your niche in your profession in this. So what would you do to help us to do a bit better during this time, harnessing the power of love, really?
Lisa:	Yeah. That’s beautiful. And I love the way that you’ve said that, “Harnessing the power of love.” Because essentially, it all comes back to that. So I’d like to suggest, if we sit in fear, and we feel frightened, then that takes us into our head. And it actually creates more fear. And it creates separation from our heart. And if you do that, you know the heart breath, where you just put your hand on your heart and you breathe into your heart for a minute? Your thoughts actually stop. And when your thoughts stop, it’s actually okay right now. Harnessing the power of love is about being able to sit in that space of the heart and of love, which feels good. Okay? So whatever’s going on outside, it’s not that we ignore it, and it’s not that we bury our head in the sand. But the thing is, we have to come to some acceptance around that, otherwise our well-being will be impacted. So we want to keep ourselves as empowered as we possibly can in this situation. Maybe so that we can help others or so that we can support others, but also so we can support ourselves. And that, to me, this is a beautiful opportunity to go, “Okay, I’m going to try and live in my heart more.” Which means I have to see the things that stop me from living in my heart. Right? So if you want to live in your heart, and you’re feeling afraid, then the fear is going to stop you from getting into your heart. So what can I do about the fear? And investigate it. “Why am I feeling fear? Okay, I feel scared.” Why do you feel scared? And you’re going through it. Of course you’re going to feel scared. It’s a scary time. Right? So I’m not saying invalidate the feeling. But I’m saying investigate it. Investigate it. “I’ve got a roof over my head. I have people around me. I need to perhaps divert my thinking. Maybe instead of thinking like that, I could be thinking about how can I help others. How could I give? How could I get in touch with my purpose? Because the more I’m in touch with who I am and what my purpose is, the better I feel.” So it’s this beautiful opportunity to watch the things that come up and getting you away of being able to sit in a place of acceptance and love. And when they come up, why are they coming up? And owning them, it’s nobody’s– those feelings, nobody has done to you. Or they’re there, but they’re something that you can actually address. Because if you think about it, if you’re using this time now to address those things, you’re becoming a person that is reaching more and more of your fullest potential, so that when you back out into the world, you’re taking yourself with you. So there’s a better you that goes out into the world at the end of COVID. Right? Because you’ve just looked at all the things that have stopped you from doing the things you want to do.
Sze Wing:	Yeah. You are who you are. So when you have this kind of meaningful conversation with yourself, discovering more, harnessing more love, you are more of that. So when you showed up whether during COVID-19 or after, you were just more. I think someone said, long time ago, think of it like, you just squeeze an orange. What comes out? Orange juice, right? So be a good orange.
Lisa:	That’s right. If you want things, do it– for example, if I want to love, if I want more love, I will give more love. Because then I’m feeling it in my heart. So therefore I’m not feeling loveless anymore. If I want to be– if I want more connection, I really look [to?] how I can connect with others. And then I’m feeling more connection. So if we give and– and if we’ve got kids, it’s a brilliant opportunity. Because we can actually give them what we want. So when I talk to people, I say to think of your kids as your inner child. And just pretend they’re you and what you would have wanted when you were their age. And of course, you would’ve wanted a parent that just went, “I love you just how you are. I can see that you’re drilling a hole in the wall, and that’s not acceptable. However, who you are is absolutely beautiful.” And that validation and acceptance and then you’re setting the boundaries but you’re not withdrawing the love to get them to stop drilling the hole in the wall. And we all want that.
Sze Wing:	Yeah. It’s so true. And I think in the Course of Miracles it talks about you cannot give what you don’t have. And that actually leads to my next question. Because I know your big project is Bunji and you’re going to explain to us what it is, how it helps people, in a minute, but I guess it’s also part of that it’s very much– for me, the way I look at it, it’s very much giving to others. It’s really a love intentionally. Putting more love into the world and hope to make the world a better place. And helping different people in different ways. But definitely for me is that you kind of have to have that space that you cannot give what you don’t have and I think that’s wonderful because this is initiative is really, essentially, about harnessing the power of love again. So tell us more about Bunji? What it is, and specifically how did you come to create this incredible initiative?
Lisa:	I just want to say one thing though on what you just said, is that one thing that I’ve noticed is that it’s very important to give from a full cup. So if I’m giving from a cup that’s not full, if I’m giving because I want somebody to love me or please me, or if that’s my dynamic of getting my emotional needs met, then it will never work for me because I will get resentful. So when I give to people, I do it in a way where I don’t abandon myself. My cup is full. If my cup is not full then I take time to fill my cup and I sort of give from the overflow, if that makes sense?
Sze Wing:	Yeah. Right.
Lisa:	Yeah. And I think that old dynamic of relationship is that we give service but at the expense of ourselves. You hear a lot about burnout. And especially if you’re a therapist because therapists can do that. And yet as a therapist, it’s so important that we don’t abandon ourselves and we can sit in our centre and sit in our power. Because we don’t have to fix anybody. We don’t really have to do anything for anybody. People heal themselves. We hold a space and we, for me, anyway, I hold that space, and I’m there for that person, and their emotional world and I communicate together. And yet they’re the ones that do the work. I don’t have to do it for them. And people can choose whether or not to do that. I don’t have to make them or convince them.
Sze Wing:	Yeah. I agree with you. It’s not fixing. It’s that you can’t fix somebody else but you can tell them, “Look your cup is not full plus you got holes in your cup so maybe we should look at that hole.”
Lisa:	And, “This is what worked for me but it might not work for you, but if it does, great.” Because we’re all on our own journey. And especially if you’re working with people or even your kids, it’s so easy for you to go, “Wow, I’ve got all these experiences I could impart”, but maybe that’s their journey. Who knows. That’s exactly what their soul might need right now and all I can do is just be there with you and connect and love you where you are right now because the more you can love people where they are right now, the more likely they are to start to heal.
Sze Wing:	I really think that children is a great example because sometimes I can see my daughter going to do something, not necessarily hurt herself, but definitely unpleasant. Why do you want to walk into this dirty water, or– you want to protect them. You want them to make the best choice, at the same time you have to pull yourself and say, “Okay. Let them get dirty so they know it’s unpleasant.” It’s almost kind of they have to learn it for themselves. So it’s hard. Also from a therapist point of view. You want to help but sometimes, the role isn’t about telling or fixing. It’s about showing and I guess we’re talking with the same thing, but.
Lisa:	Just loving people and validating people. I think that’s so healing. Anyway, back to Bunji. I’ll tell you about Bunji. So because I’m so passionate about emotional evolution, and this is something that I’ve worked with a lot of people and the learnings that I’ve had in myself, and it’s brought me to a place where I just feel this– it’s almost like I feel this channeling out of my heart. That’s sort of the feeling I get when I think about emotional evolution, and it’s something that I can’t not do. And I think that would be defined as that’s my purpose. That’s what I feel like I’m on the planet to do. So it’s just something that I live and I just do my best to share that with people. And what happened for me with the bush fires is I was giving some of my time to help clients’ friends in Kangaroo Island. And I thought, well, if I’m prepared to donate time, probably there’s other therapists that might do it. And I put a post out and I was inundated with people that were like, “Yeah, I would rather not donate money. Can I give time?” And then I thought, well, now I need a platform. I’ve got all these amazing therapists that would donate an hour here, an hour there, and I’ve got people that need the help. And the next day, someone in my network had saw me and he’s rung me and he’s gone, “I’ve got this idea. I really want to build a platform.” And I’m like, “That’s pretty cool because I did just order one of those.” And so we got together and built a website. And then we sort of got a little bit stuck on a– you can’t just go and do things like that, as beautifully intentioned as they are, other things start to creep in, like how do you form a company? How are you going to set that up or how is a website going to work? And while we did a little bit– we had a little bit of a momentum going, then COVID hit. And since COVID, it’s almost like I’ve realised– because it was a bit of a side hustle for me. But since COVID hit, I’m like, “You know what, actually, this is so needed in the world.” And my vision, it really hit me because I thought my vision is– and I’ll share this with you because Bunji fulfills this. First is that everyone have access to immediate emotional and mental health care needs without barriers. And the reason it needs to be immediate is because the long-term problems of PTSD, suicide, social anxiety, they wouldn’t be there if we reached out and we’re able to reach out and get help. Now, the second thing is that the only help that we often can get through, say, the government or our doctors is 10 sessions with psychologists, and psychologists have a role. However, there’s very few that will give it to you totally free, and it’s very prescriptive. You don’t get a choice. And at different times in your journey of emotional evolution, you might not need to see a mainstream practitioner. You might need to see someone that maybe can do past life regression or an acupuncturist. There’s all different people because we’re very complex beings. So my second vision is to level the playing field between mainstream and alternative. Have everyone available donating their time so that people can access all of these types of therapies when they need them. I’ve got therapists all over the world that have started to sign up, so that means 24/7 help. So if it’s 2 o’clock in Australia, there should be a therapist somewhere that’s donated some time is my idea. And then the third thing is I really want to normalize it. So I want to make it cool. So it is cool for us to start on the inside first. Maslow’s hierarchy of needs, that triangle, where this theory that we’ve been told that we need to look after our physiological first. And then we go through these steps and finally, at the top of the triangle, we self-actualize. And that theory. I don’t think it’s the right way round. I think we need to turn the triangle upside down. We need to know ourselves first because then everything else flows so much easier. We get better jobs. We find a home. All of the things that we look for because we’re right on the inside and we’re in the right place and we’re aligned with who we are as a magnificent, empowered being. All of those things happen so much easier.
Lisa:	So I really want Bunji to be something that educates people in the incredible benefits of starting with the self first and understanding that that’s actually a really cool way to live life and make it cool. So like Uber, there’s heaps of hire cars and taxis and then Uber dropped onto the scene, and everyone was just like, “Oh, yeah. We’re going to have an Uber. We’re going to call the Uber.” So it’s like that that we start to normalize this, “You know what? I’m an everyday person but I’ve got this problem with my mum. I’m feeling a lot of resentment around my mum and I really don’t want to feel that because I find that I’m getting angry with other people and I just want to dress that now before that develops into a pattern where I start to get angry at my daughter.” Or, “I’ve ostracised my mum.” Or whatever. You know what I mean? So it’s making it normal. So that the purpose of Bunji. It’s a big vision but I’ve had a lot of support. We’re already registered as a charity which means we have all of the right status in place. I’ve been offered a global platform by this woman who already has created a global platform and spent hundreds of thousands of dollars doing it and she’s just said, “You can come in, run parallel to mine, ride on the back of my logo, my marketing.” And I’m just like, “This is just–” the support has been absolutely amazing. So I think it really is something that’s so necessary in the world.
Sze Winf	I think two things through what you just said, I thought that’s really important is one is accessibility because if people are not educated about all the things that are possible that we kind of hold onto our problems or things that we feel most like this– so close up where when you have a platform where people can look up different therapy, different options, they can educate themselves a little bit in terms of, “Wow. That sounds like my problem. Maybe I could look for this type of help.” And it’d make it much easier to take the first step. So I think to be able to have that sort of accessibility is really important and the second things is about scale because when a lot of people can– it’s free. You can go online and most people have internet these days at home, so they can look things up and then as you said, it should be 24/7 because it’s global platform, so that can really increase the number of people that get mental health emotional help straight away rather than holding onto something for two years and then it’s completely unnecessary to suffer during that time. So I think that two really hit me is that two this time when I listened to you.
Lisa:	Well, yeah. And I think that as a therapist it’s a benefit too because we’d like to get therapists up there doing little videos and we’ll align with those therapists and they can share our logo around and we’ll share about them on social media so they benefit too. I think it has to be a win-win for everyone but definitely having that education and knowing that you can access because I know there’s been times years ago when I was going through different things and I thought, “I really feel like I’d like to go and see this person.” But it was not anything that was subsidized by any healthcare and you have to put things like that off sometimes or you have other needs that you think are more pressing and really our inner needs, to meet those emotional needs, that’s really the most pressing need we have because it if we don’t address those things, that’s when it comes out. It spurts out of other people in aggression or blame or resentment or addiction. All of those things are an expression of our unmet emotional needs and emotional charge.
Sze Wing:	Yeah. It’s beautiful, and I think when the more you talk about what Bunji, the mission or the vision, I think it really address a really different problem as society. We can talk about equality all day long, but unless there’s something like this to level the playing field like you said, yeah, great, I think I should see a psychologist. But then first of all, I don’t know, who should I call? That maybe that initial you feel weird to address it even. You know how some people hear the story and watch the movies. The people know their problem but they don’t want to get help because they don’t want the stigma, right? Number one, the privacy thing. Number two is that how to level the playing field? Not everybody can afford few hundred dollars if you don’t have healthcare. Or public healthcare is one thing, different country, different system, but private insurance is another thing. Not everybody can afford it. Then we can talk about helping people, equality all day long. But what is the platform can really address this? This is really helping the two sides to meet in the place where it’s safe but it’s also really feasible for people to explore.
Lisa:	Yep. I think so too. And there’s so many different things that have come in here. I’ve spoken to therapists that are like, “I’m happy to donate some time.” But for me to have somewhere to send people to that ring me up and say, “I want to use somebody like you but I don’t have the money.” And I can say to them, “Hey, you can go and you access all this therapy at Bunji.” And I’ve spoken to people in the education department here that are like, “This is so amazing because we don’t have any way of meeting the needs of kids that aren’t in complete crisis.” So now when we see something, we can say, “Hey, there’s this platform you can go to.” So there are so many people that have, as a referral, it would just be awesome. And I think you’re right. Look, there’s a part of me, I don’t feel fear. I mean, I suppose I would if there was a lion in the room. I don’t feel fear but there’s a little part of me that goes, “Wow, this is such a big vision.” It’s like, “Oh.” But I just know I’ve got to get out of the road and I just talk to people and I just connect and I just keep going with this flow and I’m channeling Bunji. I know I just got to keep trusting that it’s all just going to work out how it needs to.
Sze Wing:	Yeah. And it work both ways as in do you know how Rome wasn’t built over night, so you’re channeling Bunji and we’re doing this podcast, you talk in another magazine and so and so forth. And so we start spreading the word. Then it will create a platform eventually that really can carry the vision and the love you have for it. At the same time, I want to also say the same way that things don’t happen over night. But the same time, think about what you said earlier about unless they are in complete crisis, they don’t get help. So we need to wait until it becomes a really big bomb and then we should address it.
Lisa:	Well, this is where we’re dealing– in fact, this is what we’re doing as a society is we’re waiting until people in absolute crisis, and then we’re still not doing a good job. We’re still doing a crap job at helping people in crisis because there are still so many more suicides. I just think, “Oh my God.” That’s sort of a bit– I think it’s such common sense that we start to meet people’s emotional needs way back before the crisis. And for me, this is just Bunji’s all about common sense. And it’s not to say that we don’t help people in crisis because probably, I’m sure we will be. But it’s let’s also meet needs that aren’t crisis needs that can potentially be crisis needs. But yeah, I know.
	It’s cultivate health, not you treat the symptoms or the illness when it’s full-blown illness. You want to cultivate that resilience or the strength and all that before. So that’s why the education piece is so important as well because it helps.
Sze Wing:	Yeah. And for us to spread the news– yeah. So this is so exciting and I’m sure because it’s clearly things are happening. It’s flowing. People opening the doors and funding flows in and right people show up. So I am very excited for you and I think it’s going to bring a lot of good in the world. So thank you for channeling Bunji and I want to thank you for being interviewed by me on my little humble podcast. So if people want to get in touch with you, talk more about emotion evolution or about Bunji, what’s the best way to connect with you or find out more about your work and everything we’ve talked about?
Lisa:	Yes. On all social media, iamlisajayne. I-A-M-L-I-S-A-J-A-Y-N-E. My website is www.iamlisajayne.com. But also the Bunji global website, so it’s www.bunji, that’s spelled B-U-N-J-I, global.org. And absolutely, if you’re interested in being a therapist or being involved in any way, please go on there and sign up because we’re just looking for as many people to be involved as possible. And Bunji is actually an aboriginal word for mate-ship. So this is very– it’s the Australian way, looking after your mate and standing side by side with each other, and I think that’s pretty cool.
Sze Wing:	Totally awesome. I actually think it’s perfect way to end our chat with the Bunji being an aboriginal word. This is born in Australia, a really unique initiative, and so I cannot thank you enough for channeling it. And for those who are interested, I will also put the link on this blog post so people don’t need to worry about the spelling. I will put them so it’s easy for people to click on. So thank you so much for today and all the best.
Lisa:	Thank you so much.