There are certain things in life we may take for granted. For many of us, breathing is one of those things. We see that as an automatic and instinctive mechanism, but there is so much more to it. If we breathe more fully and efficiently, it can enhance our health and sense of well-being.
In my conversation with Deborah Rubin, we talked about how we both fell in love at first sight with yoga, and we also discussed our view on life purpose, soul contract and how to enjoy our evolving life journey.
Deborah Rubin is a certified Wellness Educator, Therapeutic Yoga Teacher, Buteyko Breathing Educator, Meditation Instructor, Workshop Leader, Speaker, and designer of the Clarity Process. For over 48 years, Yoga asanas (postures), pranayama (breathing) and meditation have been an integral part of Deborah’s lifestyle. She has also created, owned and operated several successful businesses over the years.
- Different aspects of yoga, the physical one (Asana) is just one of many and there are many benefits associated with the mental and spiritual aspects of our well-being.
- How Deborah found yoga (and fell in love with it) in South Africa while travelling – it was following an inner calling – and since then she has been practicing yoga for 48 years!
- Yoga affects our whole being, body and mind, as well as spirituality and it even leads us into better understanding our life or soul purpose.
- How do we use our gifts and talents in relation to not only to yourself but to others – how do we really make the world a better place on all levels?
- We are all spirit having a human experience. We have a soul contract and evolving purposes.
- Different stages or phases in life have a theme – if we watch our circumstances, stories and lessons in each stage, we will see the themes and who we are, really.
- Samskara – one way to look at this is like an old habit that doesn’t serve you anymore. For example, an old belief such as “I am not good enough and I need to be perfect”.
- How do we know if we are on the right path to living out our purpose? When we are in flow, it is easier to feel it is right, but when we are challenged, how can we discern if it just a test, or we need to change the course?
- The Clarity Process – a two-way dialogue with specific questions that will inform the deeper meaning of the conversation and to help us get the answer. It is a highly intuitive process.
- Sometimes we may be afraid of our inner voice, because we need to take responsibility once we know. Therefore a deep conversation with someone who can help us discover our truth and it is also important to be heard.
- Breathing is the most important thing we do, but often we don’t do it fully and efficiently, self-awareness and small tweaks can make a big different to enhance our health and sense of well-being.
- Breathing with mouth open and panting a lot may actually exacerbate some stress responses. So breath through your nose and keep your mouth closed.
- Nitric oxide is very important, and it is released in the nasal cavity. When we breathe in the nitric oxide, it opens up blood vessels, and it helps to distribute the air to our throat and lungs.
- If you’re breathing really shallowly, you’re probably breathing and creating distress because the nose is connected with the lower lung. It is connected with the parasympathetic nervous system, which is that rest and digest and being cool and calm. Breathing through the mouth and breathing through the upper chest is more about the sympathetic, which is more about fight or flight and energy and get up and go. There has to be a balance.
- Our breath is constantly telling us a story. If we just check in twice a day and breath through our nose, it will improve our breathing mechanism as we become more aware and practised.
If you would like to find out more about Deborah’s work, please visit her website:
|Sze Wing:||hi, everyone. I’m really happy to introduce you to my guest today. So for this week’s podcast, I’ve got Deborah Rubin with me, and short introduction, so first of all, I’m really thrilled because she’s in Canada, I’m in Australia, so it’s actually probably as far as we can be apart, right? And now, before we get into it, let me quickly share an introduction. So Deborah is a certified wellness educator, therapeutic yoga teacher, Buteyko breathing educator, meditation instructor, workshop leader, speaker, and a designer of the clarity process which we’re going to ask about it because I’m really curious. For more than 48 years, yoga asanas, the postures, pranayama, the breathing, and meditation have been an integral part of Deborah’s lifestyle, which I felt I’m kind of following your footstep in some ways. I do meditate and I love yoga, but breathing is something I definitely want to ask you about. So anyway, Deborah created and operated several successful businesses over the years and now she’s focusing on guiding her clients and student on how to live a more vibrant, healthy, fun-loving life by enjoying the process of taking care of the physical, mental, emotional and spiritual self while still expressing their talents and gifts. So obviously, she’s doing amazing work and helping others, so I’m really excited to interview you today. So welcome to my show, Deborah.|
|Deborah:||Oh, thank you so much. Well, we met and I can’t remember which show we met on or what program we met on. It was like, “I have to get to know her !”|
|Sze Wing:||So thank you so much. And as I said before, so this is sort of mid-morning for me in Australia, and in Canada, you’re late afternoon, right?|
|Deborah:||5:30 in the afternoon.|
|Sze Wing:||So I’m lucky because it’s so much easier to interview guests from Canada and west coast than east coast. It’s just our thing. It’s crazy, but I find it really exciting to tell people I’m a day ahead of you. So anyway. Now, I have lots of questions for you but I think first of all, I think I want to ask you about– I’ve been practicing yoga for about 20 years myself, and when I was started yoga I was very drawn to the physical aspect, how it makes me feel, and back then I was a lot younger, so it was Ashtanga, strong, sweaty. I considered it a workout in many ways and also I liked the fact that it worked on my flexibility so I feel like a super-human, but as I grow older, and actually not necessarily just older, but further into my yoga journey, I really feel I’ve changed. The sort of self-awareness that helps me and also know how to relax my mind and stop the noise and all that stuff. It really helps me to quieten my mind and stay clear and focused, and as I said before, my best creative ideas often come after my yin classes which I hated at first, because it’s not many action, right? There is action but it’s not like fast moving pace kind of class. You take the posture a lot longer. So that’s, for me, my journey. So can you tell us a bit about what drawn you to yoga at first and what was the story, really, 48 years ago? That’s a long time. The world was very different. You probably have to go to Ashram to take a yoga class|
|Deborah:||Well, I have been traveling– my girlfriend and I were traveling, took a year off, and we were traveling around Europe, and then she left, came back to Canada, and I went on my own to South Africa. And I met this lovely young man who said, “Would you like to go to a yoga class?” And I said, “What’s yoga? Sure.” So I went to the yoga– So in South Africa.|
|Sze Wing:||That happened in South Africa?|
|Sze Wing:||Okay. Of all places, right? Not India.|
|Deborah:||And I just fell in love with it like you. Because for me, at that time I was so young, I really didn’t know what it was about, but there was just something. And I had just started my journey on feeling that there just is something more. I had been airline stewardess, now it’s called the flight attendant– airline stewardess and we were traveling and partying and just having a great time. But that wasn’t serving me. I was feeling, “Gosh, there’s something more and what is that?” So when I came across the yoga, it was answering an inner call. And it just felt so delicious that that sparked me to take more classes and then to become a teacher and be dedicated. And I’ve been doing yoga for these 48 years. And I’m still growing and I’m still learning There’s so many levels to yoga that it keeps me moving along because it is about the physical and it feels so darn great. I feel strong. I feel agile. I feel flexible. I feel vibrant and energetic. Then there’s also the whole thing about settling down and being calm and having that ability to be more centred. And so it’s dealing with the body with the mind, with the motions, and then it’s got that powerful effect of it’s affecting our whole being, our whole state of who we are really and so that’s our spirituality. And what is spirituality? It really is all those wonderful things that we have the potential of being is that we’re living them more. And that’s what we really want, right? We want to be able to live who we really are. We come into this world, and we might not know– we might know. We might be one of those very few lucky people that are- they find it right away. Off they go.|
|Sze Wing:||Do you mean like, “I want to grow up to be a policeman” kind of thing? I used to be so jealous if the other kids would say, “I want to be a teacher”, “I want to be a firefighter like you.” That sort of stuff. And I’m like, “Oh, I don’t know.” Actually, I kind of know, but I wouldn’t say without embarrassment what that was. Is that what you mean by knowing the purpose and–|
|Deborah:||It’s knowing your purpose. But you see, there’s a little caveat there. Because we actually do know, but something can get in the way of us really honouring it. Something may happen and it takes us off our track. We’re never off our track. But it takes us off the direct road of getting there, and so our journey is kind of like this to try and locate and get back on what I call the conveyer belt of life. It’s like each one of us has been given this sort of like our drama or purpose, our reason for being that utilises our gifts and our talents that are just natural to us. But it’s more than that. It’s how we use those gifts and talents in relation to not only ourself but to others. How do we really be better in this whole world and on all levels? On all levels.|
|Sze Wing:||Yeah. I love it. So let’s unpack this a little bit. So first of all, love in first sight, it’s real. Not with a guy but the yoga class, right? So is 48-plus years a love affair still going strong? And I want to see what you think of it. So okay, first of all, let me the put the context a bit. The way I look at sort of life purpose or why are we here, that type of existential question is that I believe we are spirit having a human experience, which I believe we are on the same page. I always imagine there’s this scene before we are born, we have some spirit guides to chat with, we say, “Oh, what do I want to do this life?”|
|Deborah:||I like that. Yeah.|
|Sze Wing:||Yeah. So they said, “What you want to learn?” I said, “Oh, I have done forgiveness last life. This life I want to learn maybe self-reliance, whatever that is that the karma hasn’t finished, whatever. I want to do A, B and C,” and then the counsellor or angel, whatever, they say, “Oh, so okay, let’s put this all into a play. Okay. So you may need an abusive father first, but then you go out of it,” or then all these bad situation maybe, or a loving mother because it help you to learn blah, blah. So we discuss all the players, the big check points, the big situation that help us to grow. And then, we say okay, that sounds good. Then we have a soul contract with whatever, and then we decide that that’s it and let’s go, and then when we become human, we have those soul contract and certain direction but that’s free will, so there are times that we can take detours, but we have a direction, if it is self-reliant or something else.|
|Sze Wing:||Yeah. So anyway, so back to your point then, we all have a soul purpose. Then how do you think about the evolving of the purpose? So do you think that, let’s say, you may pick yoga as a way, then the evolving could be become yoga teacher or something else? So what do you see? Is it a definite role or how do you see if it is evolving? What is your take on that?|
|Deborah:||I see us going through many phases of using the different layers of our talents. So for me, one of my life themes would be self-doubt, having to be perfect. And so I made a decision when I was younger to not dare go express myself because I had to be perfect, and if I was going to make a mistake, well, I couldn’t be perfect and then you wouldn’t like me. You would think I didn’t have anything to say, and therefore, I put myself in a box, but creativity doesn’t just stay in a box. Creativity has so many outlets, so my voice came out in different ways. And through each lesson in the beginning, we’re younger, and I didn’t quite really see what I was doing in those early years, and then as I was getting older and more mature, I started to wake up to who I am and what I want to express. And throughout this whole thing– I was 24 when I came across yoga. Yoga was one of my tools and meditation is one of my tools, and breathing, to get more in tune with myself so I can bring that out. And it’s been an interesting journey all along the way. And I’ve been expressing different facets of myself. So there’s a theme, we go through themes. And we have different– we have lots of creative outlets, not just one. Maybe we focus on that one, and we really bring it into our life. Or maybe they’re segwaying. And then they kind of meld together. So we’re at one point in our life, we’re using a little bit more of those gifts, and then it may flow away and come in. And so it’s determining what it is– what is? Is all about happiness. The baseline is happiness. When we’re happy, we know that we’re in the right place. When we’re not happy, It’s our whole being saying, “You’re not really in the right place. And so get on your track.” And it’s the surrendering and the trusting and the believing, and it’s about resistance and commitment. It’s got so many aspects to us. But we’re evolving. And if we look at our life as an evolution, we’re never really in the place where we think we’re getting to, and that’s it. Right? There’s more, there’s more and more and more. And if we embrace that more, then life is this journey of uncovering and being who we were designed to be, who we chose to be. And so for me, that’s very powerful. It’s to recognize. It’s to recognize who we really are and living that. And we know that we’re living that when things flow, when things are effortless, when things– we can trust and things show up. It’s that serendipity. It’s like we’re in the right– we’re on the right path. And all the other things are flowing along with that path as well. So it’s kind of like you just serve– you’re kind of served what it is that you need. But we get caught up in the self-doubt, the fear, whatever your, I’m going to say story is, for this particular timeframe or when– and so that’s kind of our reason for being. Is to shed those habits. And so in yoga, it’s called Samskara, and I really like–|
|Sze Wing:||this is the same word came up three times this week for me.|
|Deborah:||Yeah, Samskara. So what is Samskara is, it’s an old habit that doesn’t serve you. So for mine, mine was the old belief that I wasn’t good enough, I self-doubt, I had to work even harder, I had to be perfect. Now, no one can be perfect. And so I limited myself in a way. So that Samskara is deep. It’s really deep in some people. It is for me. It’s been deep. And so it’s been a life’s journey of lifting off those tentacles of the Samskaras.|
|Sze Wing:||Yeah. It’s so interesting because this is the third time I hear this word in a– as a reference point by different teachers. So this one talk about in similar light, like you but she talked about more she used to work autopilot. It’s all correct. It’s just given an aspect of it, right, isn’t it? So she looked at it as an autopilot that sometimes we do like the patterns that our behavioural pattern, sometimes it’s good, sometimes it’s bad, you may or may not recognize it. But then when you do, then you can change and make adjustments, just like what you said, right? About what a Samskara that you have self-doubt and all that as an habit that we already have and we don’t even know. And another teacher talk about it more like a blueprint about our soul. Having that maybe to deal with as sort of like, this is the checklist. I mean, it’s so interesting, three different teacher, slightly different aspect of it, but it’s all talk about Samskara. I have to look it up more.|
|Deborah:||So what I like about the term Samskara, it’s like some scar. Right? So it’s deep, it’s a scar. And so that’s our journey and if we can recognise that what we think is we’re complaining and doing all this kind of stuff. But when we can turn it around. Look at it from, “Ah, this is my journey.” Every once in a while we wake up, right? We wake up and we go, “Okay.” And it’s like when we get into that place of being, and you said it earlier as being calm and being in that centre– It’s like the eye of the storm, there really isn’t anything in the eye of the storm. So that’s part of our journey, is continually going back to that place of calm, that place of nothingness, so that we can be who we are. But then we come out, right, and we’re in everyday life and we have to get– we’re busy and we forget, right, we forget that there is this place that we can always go home to.|
|Sze Wing:||I have a question related to what you said just a little while ago about. You talk about when you’re on the right track, things just flow. And then my question is, probably many people will have a similar situation, is that we feel we stay on the right path, but some things flow, something just comes up and it just pushes two steps back or it’s a challenge or we don’t know what to do with. The challenges, which in a way you think obviously, it’s normal to have some things flow, but some challenges, we still feel we’re on the right path. But then, at one point you may feel, when the challenge is bigger than we anticipated or unexpected, say, then you start to have the self-doubt come in that am I actually on the right path? So what would you say when you in that scenario? Let’s say you start a business but it’s not going as well as you hoped and you wonder whether you’re not good enough or it’s not the right business or what else do I need to know? That’s a very common scenario for many people, right? They think they follow a calling, but then not everything is rosy. So what then?|
|Deborah:||Okay. So wondering is it the right calling? And two is perhaps you’re on this journey, but what’s coming to you or what you want is not quite ready to show up and so something kind of keeps you back a little bit so that it’s easier to go for it. When you were saying two steps back, one step forward, it could be two steps forward, one step back. It’s timing. So if you’re on the right track and even if you’re– because there’s so many tracks. And sometimes you’ve got to go and clean toilets because that’s what you need to do to get on this part of the journey. So it’s part of everything. And that might be a step back to go forward. But what can happen is we feel, “Well, I guess that’s not it. If it keeps getting in my way, I keep getting these things in my way, is it because of timing? Is it because maybe that particular thing isn’t the right thing, and maybe there’s something else?” And so, it’s about listening, listening and feeling and being in tune and going, “Yeah, that might not be perfect right now, but I feel, I know that it’s actually a good thing because I’m going to learn so much from that, that when I take it forward, I can benefit from that particular experience.” Or it’s a decision. Maybe it’s time to drop that because it isn’t serving. So that’s kind of what my clarity process is about all these different things, is finding out and getting clear on– it could be on your Karma but it could also be you’re making a decision on something and just not quite right or things aren’t falling into place here. You’ve got options here. And tuning in and getting the answer yourself as to what the next step is because you know it. It’s already there. You know it.|
|Sze Wing:||Well, that’s a perfect segue into my question. So tell us a bit more about what is the clarity process. You said I think you defined it to create it for a particular purpose, so tell us.|
|Deborah:||So in my life, I have gone through many, many changes, lived in different places. So I’ve started over quite a number of times. And I’ve started over because something, a sweet small voice inside has basically said “you’re finished with that. It’s time to go here.” And every time I did that, because I listened to that sweet, small voice, I always landed on my feet. Now, I may have started over again. But that’s part of my journey, is I’m great at going in and starting things and initiating things and getting them set up and running. And somebody else may not be, but there’s still something there. So everybody has art, we have our own story and our own way of doing things. Whether you’re a pioneer in terms of archetypal things, and you like to start things, or you’re really great at foundational aspects. It’s what is it that’s akin to you? And I asked specific questions that– and it’s a two way dialogue. And you tune in, and I tune in, and I can fine tune because I hear certain things that I intuit that I can actually come at something from this direction or this direction, or we back up or we need to go forward. And then all of a sudden, it’s like there’s this ball that’s there that’s– has all this grass or dust on it, and the layers come off, the layers come off. And then, “Oh yeah, that’s it.” And then you’ve got the answer. And then there’s the steps to go forward. It’s actually quite wonderful. Very freeing.|
|Sze Wing:||That’s a lot of intuition go into this, right. And I think, intuition is such an interesting thing. I used to give readings. And I swear it’s, sometimes it’s really I see it as like two-part partnership between the reader and the client or friend, whatever. Because if someone having a certain attitude or energy, no matter how good you are, will be influenced by that because that’s what you can relate, the outcome, if that’s fear that you see, it is fear you will interpret from the (oracle) cards. It’s a very deep partnership when you do this kind of work.|
|Deborah:||Oh, it’s very good|
|Sze Wing:||Yeah, and it’s incredible. But if you walked in and you’re already like a skeptic, you just want to catch them or whatever weird reason you’re doing it, it’s not going to– sometimes it surprises you, maybe the soul wasn’t really into this skepticsism, but the ego is and then it will still come as a really good reading. But other times you’re like, “That’s clear.” because you don’t want to dance. Obviously this dance just going to look like out of sync, right?|
|Sze Wing:||It’s very interesting what you just said, even though the clarity process is something that we’re using coaching, but a lot of times we actually use our intuition a lot. It’s about, for me, it’s really about listening to your inner voice as well.|
|Deborah:||That’s right. And sometimes we’re just not so respectful of that inner voice, because we might be afraid of that inner voice. And what all that means is that about responsibility if that’s it. And I find one aspect that’s really important, is really listening to the individual and hearing, hearing what’s actually being said, and that’s why I think I’m a good proder. I can sort of prod and dig. I mean, I’ve lived quite a number of decades. And so I’ve got this experience from myself to be able to listen and hear from a heartfelt place. And it’s–|
|Sze Wing:||I think your words really helped me to jump into the next question. I want to ask you about breathing. Because on your website, you talk about breathing is the most important thing we do, knowing how to breathe more efficiently when hence your health, intelligence, sense of well being. The problem is, I think, that we all think we know how to breathe because breathing is automatic. Of course, you know how to. Okay, deep breath. Okay, shallow, deeper, low, slower, whatever. But people actually probably didn’t consider breathing is so important, we overlook it. And I think your work, whether yoga, meditation, and breathing all helps into making you a better listener, actually. But tell us a bit more about breathing. For those who haven’t paid enough attention or don’t just don’t know the knowledge about breathing.|
|Deborah:||What’s marvelous right now is that there’s a lot of information coming out about breathing, that we– it’s realistic, we just have taken it for granted, because we’ve been doing it 24/7 and it’s just here all the time. But if you actually start developing your awareness on how you breathe, if you’re breathing, let’s say with your mouth open and your upper chest and you’re panting a lot, you could be exacerbating some stressful stress response. Breathing through your nose, as much as you can, that’s inhaling and exhaling through your nose, the nose is connected to the diaphragm, the nose helps the oxygen go in and down to the lower lobes of the lungs. And then it’s– the oxygen is in the blood, and then– see the oxygen is in the blood, right. But it has to get out of the blood and go to the tissues and cells and the brain and our organs. So what let’s it out of the blood? Because otherwise, it’s like riding a bus, you can’t get off the bus unless the driver opens the door. And carbon dioxide is the driver that opens the door and lets the oxygen molecules out and go where they need to go to make you healthy. So if you’re breathing through your mouth all the time, you’re getting rid of that very valuable carbon dioxide. And then we become intolerant to carbon dioxide. So we’re huffing and puffing when we go up a hill, right. And we want to open up our mouth and we’re getting rid of more of the carbon dioxide.|
|Deborah:||So a couple of tips is, be aware of your breathing as much as you can breathe through your nose. And when you’re going for a walk, this is a great exercise, is keep your mouth closed. And you got what, “I can’t go up a hill, I can’t keep my mouth.” then pull back and go slower, build up that relationship with that wonderful carbon dioxide that’s going to let that oxygen out of the haemoglobin and into your tissue cells so you could be more vibrant and energetic and have more endurance. Also breathing through the nose. nitric oxide is a very important gas that is released in the nasal cavity. And when we breathe in, we breathe in the nitric oxide which opens up– it’s a vasodilator. So it opens up the blood vessels. And so with the– otherwise if it’s not there constricts the blood vessels. It helps distribute the air, the oxygen throat, the lungs. It’s an antiviral – which is really important right now – antibacterial, antimicrobial, anti-inflammatory. It opens up the blood vessels and it makes a lot of people very happy because that’s one of the components in Viagra. It opens up the blood vessels. And so, when you think of it, the breath, it tells a story. If you’re breathing really hyper, shallow, you’re probably breathing and creating distress because the nose is connected with the lower lung which is connected with the parasympathetic nervous system which is that rest and digest and being cool and calm, and the breathing through the mouth and breathing through the upper chest is more about the sympathetic which is more about fight or flight and energy and get up and go. So there has to be a balance. So the chemistry of how you breathe is really important. And awareness helps you do that. So throughout the day, if you’re rushing, like, “Oh, my goodness, I’m late.” And you’re doing your hair, putting your make-up on, or brushing your teeth, or shaving, whatever you’re doing, is just take some long slow soft breaths out and in through the nose. And you’ll feel yourself calm down into this place of being relaxed. Otherwise, everything goes into frenetics, right? And it just feels awful and we just don’t make good decisions when we’re in that state when we’re stressed and have anxiety. So our breath is constantly telling us a story. So if we just check in a couple of times during the day and breath through our nose and breathe. You don’t have to breathe that much for the breathing mechanism to be efficient.|
|Sze Wing:||Of course, while you’re talking about it, immediately I’m like, “Let me breathe slowly through my nose.” And is it part of the buteyko breathing method?|
|Deborah:||Yes. There’s lots of great breathing methods out there. But what I’ve found, because I was teaching other methods and I still do, but what this taught me was more of the biochemistry, the biomechanics, more of the structure of the breathing. That kind of empowers you as to why you’d want to breathe a certain way, right? The nose has got over 30 different jobs. The mouth has three, right? We talk, we eat, we speak. It’s three jobs versus all these other jobs that the nose does. It’s a very important part of the anatomy. And it’s not just here. It’s got our sinuses, and there’s a whole passageway down. It can create health issues. It can create mental issues, being anxious, if we’re doing it improperly on an ongoing basis. So it’s more that’s why it’s functional. Like how are you breathing on an ongoing basis? If you want to do some certain breathing exercises every once in a while, that’s great because you’re not doing it all the time. So you look at your breathing from that standpoint as how am I breathing on an ongoing basis?|
|Sze Wing:||Wow. This has been very interesting and so much good information. So to wrap up this interview, so how can people connect with you to find and maybe work with you on breathing or the clarity process that seems super interesting. So can you tell us what’s the best way for people to connect with you?|
|Deborah:||Yeah. So I do everything online at this point. I think everybody does. I will be doing live workshops and retreats and things like that when we get up and going that combine the yoga, the breathing, the meditation, other fun stuff. Like in my yoga classes just recently I have been doing a little bit of Bollywood.|
|Sze Wing:||The hips are super important!|
|Deborah:||That was a couple of times. We might go back to it. But it’s a lot of fun. And then we do some weights. So I like to vary it using the yoga principles of being centred, of being grounded, of using the breath, and being present. Being present. And a lot of stretching and strength. I’m a real believer in balance of stretching and strengthening and agility and into the self and finding that place of inner calm, that peace. Because we culture that. We need to continually culture that so that our nervous system is more resilient, so we’re not always stressed, but when we do get stressed, we can recognise it and go back to that place of calm. So I’m teaching classes online. People can come to my website which is deborahruben.ca, and that ca is in Canada. And you’ll be able to see what I’m doing. And also you can join me on– it’s Deborah Marcia M-A-R-C-I-A Rubin on Facebook, on Instagram, on LinkedIn, and I have a YouTube channel. They can go to that and subscribe. That’d be kind of fun.|
|Sze Wing:||Yes. I will put the link below on my show notes for your website which it felt like this is the best way to find out all the classes. So thank you so much today, spending time with us and reminding us how important it is to breathe.|
|Deborah:||Yeah, very, very important. It’s longevity.|
|Sze Wing:||Definitely. Thank you.|
|Deborah:||You’re welcome. Thank you so much. This was fun.|